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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Topic: The Safety of Our Sport Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 1 of 3   of  41 replies
Ben 31
June 12, 2013 at 09:53:29 PM
Joined: 10/12/2007
Posts: 228
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At some point we have to start paying attention to these crashes. We need to look at the cars and the incidents themselves. The injuries of the driver must be made known. We are never going to make this sport safer unless the details of severe crashes are made public. Cars and tracks aren't going to get safer if we don't know how people are being injured.

When a firefighter dies in the line of duty, a thorough investigation is completed and made public. Its called a NIOSH report. These reports have made the fire service much safer over the years. Lessons learned from the deaths of firefighters have saved the lives of hundreds of other firefighters. This transparency is needed in sprint car racing. We can't keep burying our heads in the sand. [ You should google search firefighter NIOSH reports ]

The tubing needs to be thicker. The cages need to be bigger. Tracks can have a much safer design. The technology for airbags built into the cockpit exists. Paramedic level ambulances should be at every track. Its time to quit accepting these deaths as a part of our sport. We can fix this.

Ben T


"If you're gonna run the bottom, you might as well get 
a real job."


jdfast
June 12, 2013 at 10:02:29 PM
Joined: 12/16/2004
Posts: 956
Reply
I agree, but tonight might not be the best to discuss it. It sucks whenever you see a post about a crash, especially when it's someone you saw locally and as a kid.

racinartist2
June 12, 2013 at 10:05:52 PM
Joined: 10/27/2005
Posts: 281
Reply
The post I just put on my Facebook..."No matter what is done to make the sport safer, unfortunately our need for speed is going to take people from us occasionally". With that said, be it good or bad, the NJ State Police has a special division that 'oversees' motorsports safety here. They will do a full investigation into Leff's crash resulting in death and submit their findings and recommendations. RIP Jason


Ben 31
June 12, 2013 at 10:12:03 PM
Joined: 10/12/2007
Posts: 228
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: jdfast on June 12 2013 at 10:02:29 PM
I agree, but tonight might not be the best to discuss it. It sucks whenever you see a post about a crash, especially when it's someone you saw locally and as a kid.


You're right. This isn't the time. But when there hasn't been a recent significant incident, people aren't willing to dis uss this topic. I understand why. I'm just tired of people dying.
"If you're gonna run the bottom, you might as well get 
a real job."

WoOSprint514
June 12, 2013 at 11:38:45 PM
Joined: 11/21/2011
Posts: 297
Reply
I have to agree. There are many things that could be done to make sprint car racing a lot safer. It's too bad that tragic wrecks like this have to happen to begin the safety discussions.


dirtdevil
June 13, 2013 at 12:07:24 AM
Joined: 09/30/2005
Posts: 1387
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Ben 31 on June 12 2013 at 10:12:03 PM
You're right. This isn't the time. But when there hasn't been a recent significant incident, people aren't willing to dis uss this topic. I understand why. I'm just tired of people dying.


there is never a good time to discuss problems with a driver, his safety, and a incident , I was repairing a front axle tonight when my wife brought the laptop to the shop door and told me the news, she showed me a photo, I stopped looked at the floor for a moment, told her now isn't a good time for this, and went back to work, recent stories of fellow sprint drivers went thro my head, some more personal than others, thank god, my crew was visiting tonight to take the edge off the moment by discussing not so important humourous events in our recent daily activities, I knew I would come to this forum tonight and find some remourse for our friend, I didn't know him, but, I feel like I know all the deceased drivers somehow? , because, they shared my same passion, I felt terrible being nosey shortly after Steve King was killed, BUT I wasn't doing it to be nosey, I simply wanted to understand how to prevent this from happening to myself. I made nessessary changes and looked over my equipment almost immediately after learning some important issues some racers might not find,or simply overlook, theres just too much going on sometimes, taking the time in the shop to prepare yourself is worth its weight in gold, I contacted Kings family a month or two after his incident for a avenue to direct my intrest so I could tell myself its ok,i apologized and tried to let them have their peace with me,i contacted them and put the ball in their court to discuss or not to discuss with me, I found more information from some of his equipment suppliers, some had better information than others, all of it was taken into consideration. im not trying to be rued I reminded myself, im trying to be preventative to this type of tragedy that could be possibly avoided, I found some relief from the family, I make donations to their funds when I can, and keep my ears open to any racing incidents that we could learn something from, this is a terrible subject , a very touchy and personal one sometimes, but, for the sake of OUR racers it needs discussion , how to do it tastefully is never easy, unfortunately , it becomes a secret topic and overlooked discussion, when racing is good it becomes secondary until something like this happens again, its very worthy to be discussed of anybodys loved one.. My prayers are to everyone involved family friends,track personel.fellow drivers, the list goes on and on, my thoughts are with you in this difficult time that makes absolutely no sence, God Bless..




jackhole22
MyWebsite
June 13, 2013 at 02:27:17 AM
Joined: 01/14/2006
Posts: 1347
Reply
This message was edited on June 13, 2013 at 02:30:33 AM by jackhole22
Reply to:
Posted By: racinartist2 on June 12 2013 at 10:05:52 PM
The post I just put on my Facebook..."No matter what is done to make the sport safer, unfortunately our need for speed is going to take people from us occasionally". With that said, be it good or bad, the NJ State Police has a special division that 'oversees' motorsports safety here. They will do a full investigation into Leff's crash resulting in death and submit their findings and recommendations. RIP Jason


Yep, people who never see these cars or know jack about them do an investigation. I already talked to my wife about this earlier. Love it when locals try and figure it out. I only saw the picture and havea 50/50 idea what might have happened. Though let the NJ State Troopers figure it out...? *EDIT: I don't mean let the local race fans figure it out, I mean the local police. People who are not fans, never see a race, never see how a sprint reacts...etc... Let people with no prior knowledge of a 410 investigate. ( Keep in mind I have Criminal Justice BA) Send in a Butcher to do a Doctors job...
-----------------------------------------------------
A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.

Highspeedirt
June 13, 2013 at 03:02:07 AM
Joined: 06/13/2013
Posts: 2
Reply

I have thought about this some this week. I went to the Burlington WoO race last Friday and watched a car go up the pit entrance and crash into the barriers at the Tech area. Track layout is to blame for this incident and they got lucky nobody got hurt.

I have read the post about the axle at Knoxville and a lady getting hurt. If that happens in August you have big problems and a lot of people hurt or possibly killed.

Speed - I know everybody likes how fast a sprinter is and that is some of the draw. It might be time to take a serious look at slowing them down. NHRA implemented rules years ago to slow them down and shortened the track. Although I have noticed the speeds are getting back up where the were before.

Car/Driver Safety - I look at the cockpit on these cars and always think you would have to be nuts to drive these things. A lot of things have gotten better and safer (seats, restraints, hans) but they still look unsafe as hell too me. It is racing and going faster is always the objective and that is what the focus is always on, not safety.

 



jackhole22
MyWebsite
June 13, 2013 at 03:28:09 AM
Joined: 01/14/2006
Posts: 1347
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Highspeedirt on June 13 2013 at 03:02:07 AM

I have thought about this some this week. I went to the Burlington WoO race last Friday and watched a car go up the pit entrance and crash into the barriers at the Tech area. Track layout is to blame for this incident and they got lucky nobody got hurt.

I have read the post about the axle at Knoxville and a lady getting hurt. If that happens in August you have big problems and a lot of people hurt or possibly killed.

Speed - I know everybody likes how fast a sprinter is and that is some of the draw. It might be time to take a serious look at slowing them down. NHRA implemented rules years ago to slow them down and shortened the track. Although I have noticed the speeds are getting back up where the were before.

Car/Driver Safety - I look at the cockpit on these cars and always think you would have to be nuts to drive these things. A lot of things have gotten better and safer (seats, restraints, hans) but they still look unsafe as hell too me. It is racing and going faster is always the objective and that is what the focus is always on, not safety.

 



I might be 100% wrong but in Jason's car picture his roll cage looked pretty well in shape. I just hope the little people around our sport are their to SEE (witness) what it was. I can guess but only guess. Yet again though, his cage looked in 100% form.
-----------------------------------------------------
A healthy diet of dirt in my nachos and beer.


racinartist2
June 13, 2013 at 08:38:01 AM
Joined: 10/27/2005
Posts: 281
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: jackhole22 on June 13 2013 at 02:27:17 AM
Yep, people who never see these cars or know jack about them do an investigation. I already talked to my wife about this earlier. Love it when locals try and figure it out. I only saw the picture and havea 50/50 idea what might have happened. Though let the NJ State Troopers figure it out...? *EDIT: I don't mean let the local race fans figure it out, I mean the local police. People who are not fans, never see a race, never see how a sprint reacts...etc... Let people with no prior knowledge of a 410 investigate. ( Keep in mind I have Criminal Justice BA) Send in a Butcher to do a Doctors job...


While I'm personally not the biggest fan of our SP 'running' the sport here, they are actually pretty damn good as far as the safety aspect of it. With there being a loss of life in this case, they will perform forensics at the crash scene (both the track and the car) and also to the victim to determine the cause and make safety recommendations. They don't ever seem to go on witch hunts to find fault, but determining how it went down it could help in avoiding the same thing happening in the future. At least at any future events in NJ.

Speedbump
June 13, 2013 at 08:40:31 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1461
Reply

I am hoping that a high profile dirt track somewhere in the country calls up the U of Nebraska-Lincoln and starts talking about extending their research into the local short track market.



Gambler
June 13, 2013 at 08:41:14 AM
Joined: 12/05/2004
Posts: 153
Reply
Very well said dirtdevil, I feel the same way. As drivers and car owners we need to learn from this to make it safer for everyone involved. RIP Jason.
Sprint Cars Do It On Dirt!


NWFAN
June 13, 2013 at 10:37:13 AM
Joined: 12/07/2006
Posts: 2363
Reply

it is just so sad when w lose one of our own. it is apparent to me that the safety factors in sprint car racing need to be addressed, if not now, when would that be? how many more need to die?

RIP Jason


Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

SprintFan16
MyWebsite
June 13, 2013 at 11:53:51 AM
Joined: 05/03/2007
Posts: 1612
Reply
It's all about speed - slow the cars down and you'll get several benefits - mainly a lesser force on impact, but also more time for drivers to react. I wasn't there last night and there may have been no possible time to react, but over a large sample size it can only pay dividends. It would be beneficial for sprint car racing across the board - safer and less expensive.

WoOSprint514
June 13, 2013 at 12:30:20 PM
Joined: 11/21/2011
Posts: 297
Reply
This message was edited on June 13, 2013 at 12:31:28 PM by WoOSprint514
Look, I'm not getting into too much detail. I was there. Something broke in the front end of the car and it went straight for the wall. Not much could have been done to avoid it. It's just a tragic racing accident. Every driver knows the risks when they tighten those belts down. I wish comfort for his son and may Lefturn rest peacefully.



spdrcr21h
June 13, 2013 at 12:34:10 PM
Joined: 06/03/2013
Posts: 12
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: SprintFan16 on June 13 2013 at 11:53:51 AM
It's all about speed - slow the cars down and you'll get several benefits - mainly a lesser force on impact, but also more time for drivers to react. I wasn't there last night and there may have been no possible time to react, but over a large sample size it can only pay dividends. It would be beneficial for sprint car racing across the board - safer and less expensive.


In my opinion, if were gonna slow the cars down, might as well have everyone switch over to 360s and stop running the 410 all together. Probably save some money and increase car counts.



toplaw17
June 13, 2013 at 12:45:58 PM
Joined: 06/06/2010
Posts: 17
Reply
This message was edited on June 13, 2013 at 04:36:14 PM by toplaw17
Every life lost in racing is a tragedy, no doubt about it. However, compared to other extreme sports (base jumping, dirt bike stunts, mountain skiing), the fatality rate is roughly the same. It is what we love, it is what we do. Live and learn. At the same time, safety improvements are always good. Rest in peace.

Smokey880
June 13, 2013 at 01:36:06 PM
Joined: 01/30/2012
Posts: 48
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: WoOSprint514 on June 13 2013 at 12:30:20 PM
Look, I'm not getting into too much detail. I was there. Something broke in the front end of the car and it went straight for the wall. Not much could have been done to avoid it. It's just a tragic racing accident. Every driver knows the risks when they tighten those belts down. I wish comfort for his son and may Lefturn rest peacefully.


Its a good thing nascar and Indy didn't have this attitude.(safer walls, hans device, COT car, new style indy cars ect...) Something needs to be done to slow these cars down on big tracks! 140mph avg is insane. These tragedies cannot be for nothing and say they knew when the strapped in what can happen! Drivers today think ,well it wont happen to me! I don't have the answers but someone with the knowledge might. God be with jason's family and friends.It was a true pleasure to watch you race!




Red25
June 13, 2013 at 03:18:44 PM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 2
Reply
This message was edited on June 13, 2013 at 03:20:39 PM by Red25
Reply to:
Posted By: WoOSprint514 on June 13 2013 at 12:30:20 PM
Look, I'm not getting into too much detail. I was there. Something broke in the front end of the car and it went straight for the wall. Not much could have been done to avoid it. It's just a tragic racing accident. Every driver knows the risks when they tighten those belts down. I wish comfort for his son and may Lefturn rest peacefully.


Sorry, but you are wrong.

Something "broke in the front of the car" is precisely the type of thing that can be looked at, evaluated, and improvements made so that it is less likely to happen again. Suspension parts breaking on a smooth open track aren't just "accidents" (if that is what occurred as you suggest). Rather, they are weak spots in car design that should be addressed. Not just written off as an inherent risk of running a sprint car. There are already plenty of those without preventable mechanical failure.

Two guys going for the same spot on the track and wrecking, that *is* something that can't really be avoided.

But, parts breaking and sending guys into the wall at full speed? The engineers that build components for sprint cars need to know exactly what failed and, if it is possible, determine how to prevent it from happening again.

Prayers for his friends and family.

HoldenCaulfield
June 13, 2013 at 03:37:02 PM
Joined: 03/22/2008
Posts: 2442
Reply

For starters, I think a 5/8 mile track is too big for a sprint car. Speeds reportedly were 160 mph on the straights.


A



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