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Topic: Posse Motors vs Outlaw Motors
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Page 2 of 2 of 32 replies
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May 22, 2013 at
10:06:39 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: dirtdevil on May 22 2013 at 12:05:48 AM
wrong. have you recently purchased a set of $1400.00 forged 13 degree pistons for your 283?, buy a set of shaft rockers for your Powerpak heads and let me know if they fit correctly? Oe! lifters! did you know the design of most Donovin,Brodix,ect blocks lifter bores are that of the Chrysler desighn , raised cams! oe ya, the same deal as your Monte carlos 350..right? These are specific race engines that gradually evolved from the small block Chevrole..t clear back to 1955 shortly there after the SBC became a fit in a sprinters chassis, power to weight of sprinters was best achieved from SBC , Im sorry, but even racers back then wanted the best piece for their strength to win. ultimately over time pieces are tested, broken, and replaced with better components and specifications to accomidate that. Luckily, Im a huge SBC fan, bu,t I understand there was a time when that engine wasn't avalible, Todays top sprint engine is anything but a SBC, a relative, yes, but that was over 40 years ago.. The mopars are becoming more familiar the past few years, with yates on board I expect the Fords to become in the mainstream sometime, to each his own, but if I called a Mopar "simply a Mopar" in the sprintcar world I would be pretty ignorant to understand its complexity evolved from the basic Mopar desighn, but far far from your uncles 1970 duster..
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Great post! The only thing shared by the factory chevy's, fords & mopars and sprint car engines is the firing order. Everything used on a sprint car motor in race specific.
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May 22, 2013 at
12:46:46 PM
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Posted By: Sprintguy1 on May 22 2013 at 09:47:14 AM
I have to agree with dirtdevil, there remains a great deal of diversity with regard to engines utilized in 410 sprint cars. Everybody is constantly looking for an edge on the race track and horsepower is a primary focal point. If it truly does come down to the money and how much owners are willing to spend, well, the outlaws have plenty of it. But, they always have. I don't believe top PA car owners are willing to go to the track against the outlaws knowing they are at a distinct disadvantage under the hood. To witness first hand the horsepower difference between the outlaws and the Posse was an eye opener to me and hopefully to the Posse as well. It's time to step it up when the outlaws return in July.
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Without a doubt, you can tell the difference between an outlaw car or a local going down the straights without even opening you eyes. Just listen to how hard the engine is hitting. Sometimes in TT's you can see a WOO driver mess up in the corners and still turn a good lap. The difference isn't huge but it doesn't have to be. A quarter second differnce in TT's means everything.
Like most people at the time, I thought the weight rule was a good idea but now I'm not so sure. Lightweight cars might be a cheaper way to go fast than putting more money into the engine.
Of course racing on a smaller track evens it out more than anything. However it is cool to see the 410's wind it out on a fast half-mile.
A
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May 22, 2013 at
04:44:39 PM
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Posted By: budz76 on May 22 2013 at 10:06:39 AM
Great post! The only thing shared by the factory chevy's, fords & mopars and sprint car engines is the firing order. Everything used on a sprint car motor in race specific.
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surprisingly that has changed on some mills also, Intake (well carburated) pulses and exhaust pulses are matched better with the 4-7 swap the traditional 18436572 now is 18736542 different camshaft and a switcheroo on the mag cap, you have picked up more ponies.. not sure about the fords or mopars if there is such dealings with lil numbers such as the Mighty Mouse..
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May 22, 2013 at
04:58:05 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Sprintguy1 on May 22 2013 at 09:47:14 AM
I have to agree with dirtdevil, there remains a great deal of diversity with regard to engines utilized in 410 sprint cars. Everybody is constantly looking for an edge on the race track and horsepower is a primary focal point. If it truly does come down to the money and how much owners are willing to spend, well, the outlaws have plenty of it. But, they always have. I don't believe top PA car owners are willing to go to the track against the outlaws knowing they are at a distinct disadvantage under the hood. To witness first hand the horsepower difference between the outlaws and the Posse was an eye opener to me and hopefully to the Posse as well. It's time to step it up when the outlaws return in July.
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In Posse defence , I wasn't there but I know exactly what you are talking about the noticeable differeance between a local 410 and todays hottdog go for broke 410, some hit 8200-8500 rpm, and they sing a consistant 9000 , and no less, to the die hard fans this is pretty noticeable, to some newbies or beginners they don't notice it as much, they just think their all loud, easily giving up between 20-50hp is a big deal in lap times,and as stated earlie,r a good qualifying with the Outlaws can make your night .... anyhow, maybe by chance the Posse teams will start to cycle their Nationals mills in July Afterall knocking off the outlaws at their turf is the top of the chain to them (understood and respected nothing wrong with a lil rivalry) soo Posse have some Thumpers and the means to them, don't be fooled, again, racing for more Loot takes more Loot under the hood..
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May 22, 2013 at
05:11:30 PM
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Not sure this thread would be here if Schatz hadn't made that pass on Friday. Posse almost swept the 2 races, though the Outlaws/outsiders did take most of the top 10 spots.
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May 22, 2013 at
06:11:06 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: dirtdevil on May 22 2013 at 04:44:39 PM
surprisingly that has changed on some mills also, Intake (well carburated) pulses and exhaust pulses are matched better with the 4-7 swap the traditional 18436572 now is 18736542 different camshaft and a switcheroo on the mag cap, you have picked up more ponies.. not sure about the fords or mopars if there is such dealings with lil numbers such as the Mighty Mouse..
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There is no horsepower or torque gains or losses from a 4-7 swap vs conventional firing order. The handful that we did within the past 2-3 years the drivers couldn't tell a difference in performance or drivability.
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May 22, 2013 at
08:19:52 PM
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I think we'd all be allot happier if they simply stamped FORD on the valve covers and called it a day...
Opinions may vary...
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May 22, 2013 at
08:47:09 PM
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Posted By: Wesmar on May 22 2013 at 06:11:06 PM
There is no horsepower or torque gains or losses from a 4-7 swap vs conventional firing order. The handful that we did within the past 2-3 years the drivers couldn't tell a difference in performance or drivability.
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Isn't the 4/7 swap illegal for woo?
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May 22, 2013 at
08:59:20 PM
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Posted By: BigRightRear on May 21 2013 at 08:30:40 PM
Don't look now...posse engines are turning NTRs...is Pittman running his Rider tonight?
http://www.hoseheadforums.com/forum.cfm?ThreadID=77597
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The 9 car is still running Speedway Engines,despite the picture.
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May 22, 2013 at
09:25:51 PM
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If we could just get the XXX guys to take Bug Ott to China so he could teach them how to mass produce a cheap chev, then we wouldn't have this awful issue of someone potentially having a slightly superior, different and more expensive engine. Maybe they could get the Japanese quality experts to make sure every engine makes exactly 802.87 horsepower to really make it even for everyone! All the Lincoln XXX goobers would really have cool hot rods then! Its just awsome to think that things could get even better.
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
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May 22, 2013 at
10:58:31 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Wesmar on May 22 2013 at 06:11:06 PM
There is no horsepower or torque gains or losses from a 4-7 swap vs conventional firing order. The handful that we did within the past 2-3 years the drivers couldn't tell a difference in performance or drivability.
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I mentioned carbureted, I honestly didn't understand the big whoopdie doo about changing this on a separate Inj port I know of a few of these that exhist,(W/inj) with the correct headers/heads there was suppose to be guains, but minimal, guess I let the cat outa the bag now, lol so, how about reverse rotation Kelly, had any dealings or input on that topic? is that a fad that quickly went away? I was just pointing out the timing order has been tinkered with over the years also.. for me 18 (excellent age in America to be), 43 (Richard Petty of course) 65 (year of my brothers and dads chevelles), 72 (year my brother was born) ive known that series of #'s since I was 9 years old, dad had the cleanest SBC manifold on the block...
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May 23, 2013 at
01:26:54 AM
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Posted By: dsc1600 on May 22 2013 at 05:11:30 PM
Not sure this thread would be here if Schatz hadn't made that pass on Friday. Posse almost swept the 2 races, though the Outlaws/outsiders did take most of the top 10 spots.
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My thoughts too. However there were more WoO cars dominating the top 10 but is that engine specific?
Anyone can run higher rpms but most engine builders will tell you to run less and prolong the life of the engine.
I doubt anyone could post something factually specific that proves WoO engines are better the PA engines, but I'd be interested to read it if they could.
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May 23, 2013 at
04:38:42 AM
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This message was edited on
May 23, 2013 at
04:39:41 AM by cubicdollars
After three years everyone was starting to de-tune their motors for the Goodyears with stiff sidewalls and hard rubber. It will take them a little bit to ramp up their engine programs again to match the Outlaws on Hoosiers. They were caught off guard because they all tested Hoosier medium ASCS tires (25 compound), not the softer 15s they ended up being saddled with. Plus the Hoosier has more natural rubber in it so it has been rubbering up the tracks more.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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