Posted By: cubicdollars on October 11 2012 at 11:21:50 PM
I've been racing 30 years. 15" from the center of the tire to the RR torsion arm handles exactly the same whether you do it with a 6 off wheel and 3" of spacers or a 5 off wheel and a 2" spacer. 15" is 15". They teach you that in 3rd grade. Common sense doesn't lie. Neither does a set of scales. Wake up already. You must be a xXx joker.
XXX is cheaper, inferior, slower and usually ugly...... I'm surprised you don't love them.
Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?
Air Pressure is cheaper & will perform huge amounts of load change. Problem is you cannot determine what it does sitting on the garage floor on a set of scales. Setting a race car up properly will always be a guessing game, but by dumbing down the sport with everyone required to run the same stuff it has made mediocre drivers look like superstars.
This message was edited on
October 18, 2012 at
01:23:51 AM by buzz rightrear
Reply to:
Posted By: straight shooter on October 17 2012 at 12:43:19 PM
Air Pressure is cheaper & will perform huge amounts of load change. Problem is you cannot determine what it does sitting on the garage floor on a set of scales. Setting a race car up properly will always be a guessing game, but by dumbing down the sport with everyone required to run the same stuff it has made mediocre drivers look like superstars.
back a few years ago on our car, one pound of air pressure was worth 10 pounds of static weight at the RR, all other things being equal.
it was about the same for a one inch change in RR wheel spacing
i can't remember for sure, but i think somewhere between 1/2 and one turn of RR bite was also equal to about 10 pounds of static weight. i want to say it was closer to 1/2 of a turn but i just can't remember.
i never did get into figuring out how much one pound of air changed the spring rate, or if the change in spring rate would be on a sliding scale based on the bar stiffness you were running. i always kind of thought one pound at the RR was worth around 10-20 pounds in spring rate, depending on the bar stiffness. but i was never smart enough to really figure it out.
with the weight of the cars being a little different things might have changed a little.
but you are correct, it is sometimes a guessing game. more guessing than game for most of us!
This message was edited on
October 18, 2012 at
01:49:45 PM by Pettas
Reply to:
Posted By: on at
No it doesn't... When you change wheel offset, it changes your spring rate as well... An easy way to visualize this is to picture the Car sitting on stands, no wheels, with the rear axle on setup blocks.. Now while your rear arms and shocks are hooked up, grab the axle closest to the birdcage and try to pull the axle off the setup block... Now grab the outer most axle, let's say around the threads, and pull the axle up off the setup blocks.. It will be easier.. It's called leverage.
So as you can see, as the night goes on, you can change your wheel offset, but keep your wheel spacing the same. This fine tunes your spring rate without changing the static weight of the car...
This message was edited on
October 20, 2012 at
12:32:43 AM by cubicdollars
Reply to:
Posted By: herman327 on October 19 2012 at 06:48:45 PM
We've argued and disagreed before cubic.........but damn you make me laugh! Keep it up man!
Thanks
But I've also always taken this tire rule deal dead serious. $20,000 a year per race team can be saved with the flick of a pen just on their tire bills, if they can legitimately run them for more than one night. Not to mention what they save by not having to run their motors on kill all the time if they unhook them. That's why I fight people so hard who whine about it.
The Hoosier SC did nothing. Track record after track record fell.
The Goodyear actually made them a little racier and you could run them more than one night. You started seeing guys like Danny Smith winning tons of races on used tires and a resurgence of -12 head motors.
This time the race teams in Central PA are asking for a hard tire they can run for several races or sell for half price to our 358s.
I pray the powers that be finally make the right decision this time, instead of just dicking around for five more years.
It would enable the Outlaws to be able to sell their used tires for $100 a piece as well. Instead of just one team getting $50,000, why not give them all an extra $20,000.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
This message was edited on
October 20, 2012 at
12:40:56 AM by filtalr
Ummm... cubic .. you DO realize that by including the manufacturer's (that you supposedly HATE) web site in your sig link - that you are therefore promoting it and increasing its presence on the internet... Just wondering....?? Surely someone as smart as you would know that and that internet search engines don't see (nor care about) your little 'pee-boy graphic'.....
This message was edited on
October 23, 2012 at
09:57:22 AM by cubicdollars
Reply to:
Posted By: filtalr on October 20 2012 at 12:38:19 AM
Ummm... cubic .. you DO realize that by including the manufacturer's (that you supposedly HATE) web site in your sig link - that you are therefore promoting it and increasing its presence on the internet... Just wondering....?? Surely someone as smart as you would know that and that internet search engines don't see (nor care about) your little 'pee-boy graphic'.....
Unless you ask yourself if a single U.S. chassis builder would be in business if they didn't even know what a "spint" car or "ChromeMolly" tubing was. If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. Not to mention I've been posting a link to it for over a year, and no one has cared enough to even get it fixed. Nice quality control. http://www.ycmco.com/ProductShow.asp-ID=135.html
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
Posted By: cubicdollars on October 22 2012 at 06:33:25 PM
Sounds like Central PA will also be on Hoosiers in 2013. A big hats off to Knoxville for having the balls to stand up to the Outlaws.
Its not the first time that Knoxville has went against the WoO.
Without Knoxville the WoO would likely still be running without a weight rule running cars with nearly everything built out of carbon fiber.
Posted By: kooks on October 22 2012 at 10:42:15 PM
Its not the first time that Knoxville has went against the WoO.
Without Knoxville the WoO would likely still be running without a weight rule running cars with nearly everything built out of carbon fiber.
And Kinser would have had to retire 5 years ago if there was no weight rule.
Central PA car owners helped lead the charge but Knoxville management sealed the deal. It was stupid and arrogant of WRG to think they could force every race team across the country to pay $40 more for a tire than they were already paying for it. What a bunch of jackasses.
http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/10/local_sprint_car_tracks_side_w.html
PA tracks go with Hoosier...
Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better
weather." Van May
Posted By: BigRightRear on October 24 2012 at 11:46:06 PM
http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/10/local_sprint_car_tracks_side_w.html
PA tracks go with Hoosier...
Rumor has it the promoters are making a decision on the ASCS tire at the trade show in two weeks. Knoxville supposedly wants all three of their classes on the same tire, so race teams can resell them to one another. Their 360 and 305 classes are already on the ASCS tire. Basically it would cut the cost of a right rear in half, from $200 to $100 if they can resell them for $100. It sounds like it is a financial decision as much as anything.
Posted By: cubicdollars on October 10 2012 at 03:42:46 PM
"I didn't see a big problem when we had to put on the 16" (wide right rear tire) for the ASCS show. I think 16" is a move in the right direction, but it plain and simply is not enough. The tire companies will probably freak out on this, but I believe we need to cut the left rear width back to around 12" to help take some of the drive out of the car. Less tire, less power needed." - Jeff Swindell
JEFF- I think 12 inch is to narrow. The 410 drivers would stage a tee party riot. In 360 class we had a 18 inch rule and a new TT record set, then went to 17 inch and a new track record, then went to a 16 inch with a new track record. Danny L. is talking about 990 HP engines. Why no one has ever suggested intake stack restrictors for 410 engines? We used to run 13 inch wide AM. Racer tires D3A and D3B. They durometered at about 60. You could almost run one tire for 15 races. Driver said the were so hard that he could see the reflection of his car off of car in front of him. I do not think any tire co. would want a contract if drivers would only buy 1-2 tires a year.
Posted By: linbob on November 20 2012 at 03:54:23 PM
JEFF- I think 12 inch is to narrow. The 410 drivers would stage a tee party riot. In 360 class we had a 18 inch rule and a new TT record set, then went to 17 inch and a new track record, then went to a 16 inch with a new track record. Danny L. is talking about 990 HP engines. Why no one has ever suggested intake stack restrictors for 410 engines? We used to run 13 inch wide AM. Racer tires D3A and D3B. They durometered at about 60. You could almost run one tire for 15 races. Driver said the were so hard that he could see the reflection of his car off of car in front of him. I do not think any tire co. would want a contract if drivers would only buy 1-2 tires a year.
Are we racing cars against each other,or are we trying to see how much we can outspend the other racers,while enriching the track operators. We have more sprint cars running now than at any time in history,and as a result,more tires used,and yet the tire people want a contract. BS!!! let them compete for the end user's dollar. Not force the end user to "pay to play"....
