Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Never hit stationary objects!

I'm old enough to remember when the premiere series in the country had an engine size limit....305! Yep. USAC once had a 305 engine limit, and the racing was not too bad, as I remember it.

But times have changed, haven't they?

Chuck

Formerly known as sprinter25

I see Lynch is a few tenths quicker than stuff 21 years ago. They need to make 305s the top class and a 283 with a single throat the limiteds.

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

Go watch a show put on by Smiley and The Sprint Series of Texas----- 305's Enough said, these guys know how to put on a show and I mean a show!!!!

People complain about the purse for 360's compared to 410's wait till they see what 305's run for less than $500 to win. Of course promoters would love to make sprint cars on the same pay scale as one of their stock car classes.

IT WAS A 305 C. I. LIMIT USAC RAN THEY WERE TOTALLY DIFFERENT ENGINES AS FAR AS MODIFICATIOS AND RULES WERE CONCERNED.IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY THEY COULD RUN FUEL

Maye you shold ask if 360 engines will replace 410. Who can onestly say$ 50,000 410 engines can begood for sport. I always wonder how an orginazation like ASCS can write the rules . The 360 cars. sothat you can spend $3,000 on titanium chassis parts. If ASCS did not allow tit parts every one would be the same. A $40,000 360 engine is crazy also. How many kids and wives suffer becase dad bought a $40,000 engine. It will never pay for itself.The pro engine builders are now building high cost 305. Now that dry sump 305 motors are allowed at some tracks the only savings is the price of heads,

I like the USAC analogy... but let's be fair, guys.

The USAC 302/305 was a NON-WINGED car with rock-hard tires... they looked at the new, modern double diamond Firestone as the hot tire for a bit!

I love the wings... but in general I see better racing in my limited non-wing racing. The USAC/CRA races at the Bowl back in the day were great, for example. Better than the WoO on most nights.

I think it's crazy that Emmett Hahn hasn't come up with more ASCS non-wing stuff... talk about an affordable program! The high-dollar 360 wouldn't matter much without a high-downforce wing IMO.

The small OCRS-type wings are ok... I'd say go without wings on 305's and offer more 360 nonwing stuff.

I'd like it.

If kids are suffering because Dad bought a 40k engine, then the Dad is a total and utter MORON (yes that was caps its worth yelling about) the thought of that is just CRAZY. People will outspend each other on wheelbarrow racers, lawn mowers, and go-karts, soapboxes, unicycles, lincoln logs, paper airplanes, pogosticks, and rollerskates.

Stuff is messed up, but its sprint cars and its not cheap...sucks it has to be this way, but if you don't the other guy will plain and simple.

Who can list one rule that cant be "fudged" by spending money and gaining an advantage. Hard tires: traction control, Smaller wings? higher priced shocks, spec head? laser, acid etch, sealed crates? aftermarket seal bolts, no Ti? drilled out hollow bolts. Don't have the answer just stating the facts.

I don't know why crate engines aren't the answer. Some tracks are already using them in their late model division, while grandfathering in present-day engines until they need replacing. National dirt late model hall of famer Ronnie Johnson runs a sealed all aluminum CT525 crate engine, has for more than a year now. Cost $7190 or $9750 race ready with all you need to race except carburetor, delivered to your door from GM. During the past 12 months he has won several late model races, including a couple that had 7 or 8 drivers from the WoO and Lucas Late Model series. He has paid for the engine several times over, has as of the story I read dated 11/9/2010, had no problem competing with and often beating $40,000 open engines.

They are working on developing an even more secure sealing system that would enable detection of unauthorized tampering with a "hypo-glyph" system. Johnson ran the engine in 34 races last year while only changing the oil, nothing else, and said, "seems to get stronger the longer we run it". Believe what you want. Maybe the guy works for the seller, who knows.

I believe Ron Shaver will sell the LS7 sprint engine that the Schatz's have been tinkering with for $13,500. The same motor Donny Schatz won an All Star race in Fargo last year with, even being down a hundred+ HP, though the track was dry slick so HP didn't really matter as much as usual. They are continuing to test it on off nights, having tested it at Knoxville and at Minot,ND this year. Breaking spark plugs seems to be a minor problem if I heard correctly.

.

 Lawlessness and liberalism equals Hell.  NY City, 
Detroit, Seattle, Chicago, Minnepolis, etc. We saw it. 
Burning hundreds of buildings, a thousand assaults and 
dozens of murders. Getting worser and worser.

Loose is when you hit the wall with the rear of the
car, tight is when you hit the wall with the front of
the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and
torque is how far you move the wall.

The crate engine is great if you want to virtually eliminate the true car-guy fan. There are still a few fans that enjoy who can build the best piece. There is already a sport involving racing without any engineering or creativity. Its called track and field. Dough Boy riding around in a cookie cutter race car with a massed produced street car engine on a bone dry track just doesn't sound like anything that is going to pack a grand stand any bigger than the one at the local little league field. Cheaper isn't better except for a poor guy that dreams about going as fast as a rich one.

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

The car that finished 2nd the first night and won the second night of the Labor Day show did not have a $20,000 motor. Far from it in fact. Someone mentined dry sump. A lot of the guys running 305's have that stuff laying around from 360 racing.

Most recently,most tracks have used the lower cost divisions as a reason to lower their costs in the form of less payout to the racers. interestingly,the back gate entry rate has not been reduced to assist in lowering a racers cost. Why is the track a business,and the racer a hobby ?

What track are you speaking of? Perhaps if local tracks started teching the 360's that would go a long way in making sure the "hobby" racers would return weekly.

darnall, if you are talking about me, you need to come and check your facts bud!! I can show you what my motor costs, and it doesn't break $10K much less $20K!!! I don't care what it looks or sounds like, it has been teched time and time again and it is legal as they come. Stock GM cast# heads, flat tappet cam and all.....No hard feelings, just don't want people to get wrong info. There is a lot to show for research before building a motor, car setup goes a LONG way with that class also.

I will jump in on this discussion here.

360 racing is getting crazy on motor prices. Have heard stories of some of the guys that run regional series thinking about not running ASCS anymore b/c of motor costs. Getting way to expensive for them to field a car. I have heard stories of 305's in the 20 to 30 thousand dollar range as well. Yes the old saying it is only money or it all depends on how fast you want to go applies here. But let me ask you something if we want the sport to survive do we not want more people in cars than out of them?

There is a track here in Central Oklahoma that has a non wing class. This is its second year of running and the class is actually growing in cars. Last year at the beginning of the year that class had three cars. At last check there have been a total of 15 cars that have shown up this year to the track. Rules for the class are simple. Motor is a Ltd mod motor. 350 block. Stock Crank, Flat top pistons, GM Iron heads. Hydraulic cam, and a two barrel carb. Engine cost around 3500 to 4000 on a avg from what I have seen.Tire rules are a RR Hoosier med compound that the ASCS run. So you can buy 2nd hand tires for next to nothing from the national guys. The complaint I hear over and over though is the payout is not enough for people to build a car for this class. Is racing not for fun or lets think we are superstars. At least at the local level. 81 speedway in Wichita has picked up the same rules for a class they are starting the only difference is that you have to run a 16 square foot top wing.

However, like someone said if teching is not done and people start letting rules change then it will become that same thing we are talking about now.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen