Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Like I said plan all you want and talk about what should be done and who is killing what class but until you can make it profitable in will not work.

The 360 nationals should answer that question for you.

What do they to offer

Lots of cars

Good money

Great racing

Did it several years so people know it is there ,tried different dates

small crowd

Should be a lot bigger than what it is. tell me how you make it work. Talk about cheaper engines so more people can run. you do not need more cars with drivers that can't drive there are plenty of good cars and good drivers now with over 100 cars you just need more people paying for a ticket in the stands

If you have 400 hp sprint cars, you have karts. Without enough power to pass you will have a big pack, just like restrictor plate Cup racing. The guys with talent won't be able to shine. When guys can't drive by a slower guy, they start knocking each other out of the way- haven't you ever watched a street stock race? The saving in engines will be spent on battle bars, frames, wheels and hospital bills. And spec engines are not the answer, I know guys who spend enough on their Legends cars to field a halfway decent spec sprint.

I agree I wouldnt go with the spec engines, but to say that a 360 series can't be successful is foolish. Look at ASCS and how far they have come. Obviously the 360 nationals makes money or they wouldn't have the race.

Guys,

I personally would love to see a 360 non wing series start up, especially if they held some races in MO, ARK, TN, etc. (And yes, there are some very good tracks in the mid south area!)

If you guys think 450-500 HP motors in a non wing car are a joke, go to Youtube.com and check out some of the non wing 305 race videos from Riverside Speedway in West Memphis, AR. Some of the more recognizable names that have competed (and shined) in the class include Jeff Swindell, Eddie Gallagher, Jan Howard, and others. The class is very, very competitive, and the crowd loves them. NOW....put in 650 HP 360s, and bring in some of the existing winged 360 guys, take their wings off, and you'd have a helluva show. Tracey Clay has done this at I-30 in the past couple of years, and had a great response. Some of the 305s have actually run (and been competitive) against some of the 360s - moreso once the track has slicked off.

A 360 wingless series is the most logical next step in local/minor travel racing....JMO

I do not think you know that to be true.I know that they think if they do it long enough maybe it will make money But you would hate to try to buy a cup of coffee with what the Marion county fair has made so far. The weekly shows lose money every week but it would be hard to have a nationals without a weekly show. Why do you think the pay out is not bigger? No crowd Most people have no idea what it cost the do this.The purse is a small part of it

your right on a lot of that, one of their main problems in my opinion (as is a big problem with all types of companies) is a failure to recognize that there comes a point when changes need to be made. Often older people that run these organizations are stubborn in their ways and wont admit that its time to try something new. Too much pride or just not enough education I really don't know, but eventually they are going to have to get some younger people and fresh blood and excitement and new ideas in there at the fairgrounds

They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..

I have seen the wingless class at The Ditch, and it is a good show, for an entry class. You also don't have guys spending big bucks to run there, because if you have the money, you rung the 360 class. But the The Ditch has no straightaways. Put a non-wing 360 on a track with longer straights, and you will see a guy get a great run until 1/2 way down the straights, then he can't finish the pass because the engine quit pulling and he couldn't clear the guy. It's kind of painful to watch for me, but I guess a lot of people call it great racing because the leader and 2nd place are bumper to bumper for 5 laps, and sideways coming off the corners. I would just rather see the guy be able to finish the pass because he's getting through the corners better than the other guy, not have to result to a questionable slide job because his engines tongue was hanging out.

I don't know if it was posted & I missed it: when I think about a nonwing 360 ASCS series... I'm thinking going an entire season with no engine rebuild. I'm thinking about running a 5 or 10 year old 360 motor and not have to dump a ton of cash into it to be competitive. I'm thinking about possibly a few less tire purchases.

Which of those items offends you the most?

I've posted it half a dozen times... the WoO didn't shut down when it limited c.i. to 430 or 410. Nascar actually blossomed after the days of the 427 c.i. motor.

C.I. is not what people come to see... they come to see RACING. If the racers can save a little $$$ and put on a show... whats wrong with that?

I have not said they will not put on a good show

What I said is it does not draw a big enough crowd to pay a good purse

I have never said it was not good racing

I don't think saving money is a bad idea, I just don't think starting a big money series is the way to do it. Running high profile big money 360 races will just crank up the price of 360 racing. I have seen it happen on asphalt. Also when the cars slowed down, the fan support dropped. You are never going to make sprint car racing cheap, I just don't want to see 410's die in the name of economy just to see 360's become the new standard with reduced purses and no real savings to the racer. Asphalt racing went the way of highly restrictive engine rules and guys went from paying 30 K for a 500 HP engine to paying 30K for a 400 hp engine.

I was told that some of the URSS 305's motors are running in the 15,000 dollar range.

There is a track that is about an hour east of Okc that runs non-wing sprints. This is the first year of the class. The promoter of the track made it that the engine rules are "cheap". The engine is a IMCA sport mod motor. I asked Jeff's performance down in Texas what it would cost to build a motor for this class and they said about 4000. I talked to another engine builder and they said they could build a motor for about 2500 to 3000.

Last week they had nine cars in the pits. I have talked to several owners and they said if the promoter would increase pay then they would build a car for this class.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen