Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

what are some options to tightn up a car that is loose enterting. i am on a 88/40 eagle chassis. running the 3x5 top wing with 305 engine. the car is really loose entering and then super tight in the corner almost to the put it is pusing and freakn awesome coming off. any ideas?

Michael Williams
77w URSS sprint
[email protected]

more rr weight first thing to try

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

Pull in the RR an inch or 2, try it...it will probably then be really tight in the center. Then increase the compression on the LR shock a bit(go to a 6/4 or 7/3 if you're running a 5/5) and increase the stagger a bit (if you're running 13", go to 15" if you can).

What bars are you running, both front and rear? You may also want to try an stiffen up thr RF shock, since the car may be falling down on the RF after you enter, which is causing the tightness mid corner...

But it's a black art, these sprint cars.......

Chuck.....

i am running a 3/7 tie down on the left rear. i got 1025 bars on the right side and 1000 bars on the left side. i have the rr all the way in. i have fought this issue at 3 different tracks with 3 totally different track conditions. the third track is where i notice it falling over on the rf the other to it didnt do that.

wont adding stagger make the car freeer entering the corner

Michael Williams
77w URSS sprint
[email protected]

my two cents would tend to agree with cubic as a possible simple solution. a little more RR weight might drag the RR a bit going in when you lift, helping to tighten, then help to push the RR and turn the car under throttle. you might try putting a little RR and LF in the car to maybe keep it from having too much RR coming off, but again it might be a little tight in the center. also the way you drive the car has an affect. if you wing it down going in and don't let the RR load enough, it can be loose in and stay loaded on the LR in the middle and get tight when you pick up the throttle at that point. your solution may just be to let the car roll a bit more going in and transfer a bit more weight to the RR. we all have our own opinions and sloutions so no one can really tell you for sure what will be the correct thing for you to do. still it sounds like not enough RR load going in and at the throttle hit.

to indy and beyond!!

What's the offset on the RR? Iincreasing stagger will loosen the car. but I assumed that you were running the wheel on the RR out a bit....if you're running a 4 off, change to a 5 off. to try and get the RR in a little closer to the frame of the car.....The LR tie down is helping the car off the corner, but it is also keeping the car loose when entering the corner....Are you running any turns in any of the bars?; again, as others have said you may want to move some weight around by adjusting the bars as they've commented......

Chuck.....

Id have to agree with most ideas on here for a basic- generic option for a solution on your trouble , If you try some of the advice givin and nothing makes a noticeable differance (obviously too late to try something else ) the thing I find that makes the car handel different is to change up your style of entry (very difficult if you just tune the car to yourself ) drag the brake on entry (practice putting the car in a slide ) "very controlled slide" this seems to work OK if the track is dry and a larger track you might wear out your leg, but, the car might feel tolerable? of course, driving in harder and getting a feel of your braking power will be navigated . JMO

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

If you're fairly new to sprint cars, are you flicking the wheel, even just a little bit, going in? With the rr in as you said you could be tight. Your butt is smarter than your brain, it can feel that the car isn't going to turn, tells your brain, your brain tells your left arm to pull that wheel down and make it turn. I assume you're running a short track with those bars. If you're on a big track the soft left side will make it wing over more easily and free up the rr, as will that 3/7 shock. As someone else said, make sure the rearend is square and the ball free. I'd start on 3" and 4" blocks, put a turn in the rr, rr wheel at about 17" (maybe 18" with that little engine, especially on a heavy track) with 13 or 14" of stagger, 4/7 lr and the rest 5s. This is all to start out the night. Keep it basic, drive it gently, let the car turn itself in, just hold the wheel and do the minimum possible. If you're a rookie remember what Bob Trostle always told me, "If a rookie tells me the car is loose, I'm going to loosen it up more."

You can increase stagger for the center of the corner and pull the RR in more if possible. Stagger is mainly for turning in the center of the corner. RR weight will help it turn as well as everyone has mentioned. There are so many little things that can be done.....you'll just have to experiment and find what works for you.

Legend77,

The guys have made some good suggestions, but I'm not convinced that they are going to address your problem...

If you have your right rear tucked all the way in, your car shouldn't be loose on entry. Is is possible that your car is sooo tight, that you make it loose? That means that the car won't turn, so you force it to rotate by pitching the car sideways; then, when the car starts to slide, it feels loose on entry.

I don't want to offend you, but are your sure your rear is square and that your suspension doesn't have a bind? Are your torsion bars good? Do they need to be checked? Check off all the basics, before you address the setup.

Yes, adding stagger can make the car "free on entry", because it adds chassis tilt, but stagger is most effective during acceleration (from the center, off). So don't try to fix your "loose on entry", with stagger.

Focus on the basics; something isn't quite right on your car. Tucking the RR all the way in, is almost never a good idea, even when the track starts to slick off.

Sounds like you have something bent, or at least bound up. You should rarely need the right rear tucked the whole way in. With it falling over on the right front, it sounds like your fighting the car. Check that everything is free and square, if it is free it up more!

ok ok let me re do this. i totally screwd this up.

I am running a 3x5 wing with a urss 305 engine. I have been gearing it low everynight so i dont run alot of rpms to use that to try to tightn the car up.

my setup is 1000 bars on the left and 1025 on the right sides. I am running 5-5 shocks on the front and 5-5 on the rr. I have tried 4-7 and 3-7 shock the lr. the 3-7 helps me get a better run up off the corner. blocked 3 on the front and 4 on the rear. 2 turns on the lf and 2 on the lr to level the chassis. im not to fond of t chassis tilt.

Hays first night. heavy race track. car was loose entering the corner. I would lift early trying to get the weight to transfer on the rr to help it out. didnt really seem to. as soon as i would turn the car baisicly felt like it wanted to spin out. until it hit the center of the corner then it got tight and drove like it was on the pavement and laid over the rr real bad so i put the 3-7 shock on to help it get on the lr. lr was in and the rr was in on a 5off wheel.

lamar the 2nd night. track was dry and slick so i put a 3-7 on the lr and 4-7 on the rr to tightn it up. and moved the lr out 2ins and the rr in as far as i could get it on a 5off wheel. along with 5-3 shocks on the front car was still loose entering. all night.

byers co the 3rd night. track was semi slick. as quick as i started to turn in the car wanted to go around. but being a tight track it allowed me to rotate the car and drive off low underneath people sliding up. i had my 5-5 on the rr and 3-7 on the lr along with 5-3 on the front. this was the first night i notice the car nosing over on the rf after the car got really tight in the center of the corner.

I have checked the car out. every night i go thru it and make sure everything is square. i grease all my bars and torque ball. the car is not bent and i cant seem to find anything binding if it is.

Michael

Michael Williams
77w URSS sprint
[email protected]

You're skating on entry because you have no right rear weight in it and are way too tight to boot. Your setup, 2 turns in left side, and rr tucked whole way in, plus lr whole way out, is only for dead dead slick at best and even then you have to drive it dead straight in order to not break it loose. And no rr weight compounds problem that much worse. Lower the left side some, rear wheel spacing standard for conditions, and put some rr weight in it and you will feel much better.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

What cubic said! You are truly waaaay to tight. Do what he said. 1000's down left, and 1025's down right. LR in at 13 or so inches, rr out to 17 1/2-18. 5's on the front, your 4-7 on lr, and 5 on rr. Block 3 front 4 back, do not adjust the left side weights. Put some into the RR, and even take 1/2 out of the lr. Gear to run where you want it to, not to stay tight.Try that.

Your setup before was so tight from turns into the left, and rr in all the way, that you thought you were loose. As the night goes on you might want to try 1000 in the rr if the track is really slick or slow ( I have no idea what tracks you are running) easy up the rf to a 5-3, and move the rr in and lr out accordingly. Don't be afraid to put some turns into the lf and rr.

Hope this helps. Let us know!

.

first n foremost are your tire bleeders clean? what PSI has the RR been at? what width RR wheel are you using ? I hate to ask the obvious ,but, if your tires are not bleeding off your screwed,

another thing to consider is your LR shock close to bottomed out ? on entry does the LR feel dominant while the RR feels freed up? (light footprint) Ladder location lifting the RR excessively on entry?

Commonly, If the track goes dry, we like to run strait 4's on the rear 9" RR and a 8" LR and just let the rearend do its thing, if we carry alot of corner speed on entry we will put a spring assisted bumper on the LR, this shock settup seems pretty conserative (driveable) for both entry and exit we tune the stagger to roll though the center (scew) the car , Granted we run alot more HP, so our ideas might not be helpfull , personally I would step up the LR bar 1025, possibly, and see if that helps the entry, maybe it will take some of your exit bite away, BUT, where is your ground being made up (or lost) to your company, ? that is the question?

weve never run 305's but wouldnt a shorter (86" car be more responsive on the rearend ? something to keep in mind ? maybe, wind up the bars to gain your desired rate and pull back the front axle if you can..JMO

Dirtdevil,

I looked at the URSS rules and I don't think they are allowed to run bleeders. I know that sounds stupid, but I'm pretty sure that's what the rules say. Please verify.

Michael,

Cubic and Camfone gave you some excellent advice.

You should be able to follow this very closely:

Give yourself three setups for the three different track conditions. Now the only guess-work is reading the track!

And perhaps you can find a sponsor to buy you a new RR tire.

Best of luck!

Rome wasn't built in a day......but they sure didn't
waste any time burning it down!

I'm confused as to why you are trying to take the tilt out of the car? Just by running a normal amount of stagger in a sprint car you'll come up with a good deal of tilt. I'd say there's problem number one. Lose the thought that you need to wind up the left side bars 2 rounds out of the gate. What everyone has told you to this point would work pretty well. By sliding the right rear clear in, you have put some of the RR weight back into the car (the spring rate stiffens the closer you move the wheel to the car). Our simple setup starting point is pretty close to what most people have stated. 3's and 4's (I do block my LR 1/4" lower), and then 1/2 in RR and 1/2 out of LR. Basic shock package....I do tweak it a bit, but not far off the norm. RR at about 18" out, LR at about 13" out. With your wing package, you're probably going to be a little closer in with the RR to cut out some of the looseness. As I said before, experiment and find what works for you.