Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Dan Henning
LND MOTORSPORTS

Let's hope we can get 305's at Knoxville, the 360 class has been allowed to get way out of hand.

I think it is about time for the "Big shots" in racing to get together with a tire rule or something to take away the engine size benefit, and turn ALL sprint cars back into Sprint Cars again.

Save your butt, get a colon screening TODAY

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Duane Davis

Laser Engraving 
641-751-7777
101 N Center
Marshalltown, Iowa 

The tentative 2009 Knoxville Schedule can be found at the website...For the third year in a row, Nationals tickets will remain the same...

I think the problem with 305s right now are the inconsistencies and splits among the organizations. We see less pre-entries for the big September show than a year ago (I assume because of the splits). Not a way to move towards the future with 305s at Knoxville in my opinion...

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@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com

maybe it is Knoxville Raceways time to take the bull by the horns and do SOMETHING, they hold the key to success of the class Nationwide.

Save your butt, get a colon screening TODAY

For complete line of Sponsor Awards check out 
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Duane Davis

Laser Engraving 
641-751-7777
101 N Center
Marshalltown, Iowa 

While 305's currently offer a cost effective alternative for the low buck racer, any low dollar class will soon separate the "haves" and the "have-nots"; racers have ALWAYS found a way to spend their way to the top...

As the original poster has pointed out, 360's were once an entry level, low cost alternative, but the costs have spiraled out of control to the point where a really competitive 360 costs $25-30K. Why? Because there aren't enough cost controls in terms of rules that limit or prohibit excessive spending.

Let's face it, other than the cost of the motor, what's the difference between a 360 and a 410 sprint car? Very little....

And most tracks' attempt to control 305's have met with limited success; Fremont gets a ton of cars in its 305 class, but more than a few of those cars run big-buck 305's. Unless rigid rules are put into place and then enforced, the guy with the most bucks will always outspend the other guy.

Want to control costs? Limit injectors sizes to 1 7/8 in, RR wheels to 15 inches, tire hardness to a Hoosier 55 compound, and wing size to 4X4 with no in car adjustment allowed.

But you wanna bet that costs will still spiral out of sight?

Chuck.....

I know Williams Grove and Lincoln run a 358 as their Limited class, while Trail-ways and Selinsgrove run the 358 class as their main attraction. I cannot understand why the 358 rules haven't become more popular across the country. The engines are regulated to 10.8:1 and they run a smaller middle wing then the 410's (and 360's) do (16sq/ft vs 25sg/ft). Friends of mine that race 358s can run an entire season at two tracks with one motor, with the possibility that it may need a minor freshening once throughout the year. Also, the smaller wing does a good job of un-hooking the cars which I think compliments the reduced power these engines make (600-700hp vs 800-850hp). I will say, I think the 358 shows at WG exceed the 360 (URC) shows for excitement and good racing.

Their is no real difference between 410,360,or305 car wise. Except for tie stuff. The real down fall as I see it with 305's is the fact that it is very low budget in most cases. If your 305 class has 16 cars in the spring and 5 or 6 of them have crashes or motor failures in the first 4 weeks ( whish is not unheard of) now you have a 10 car field for the next 8 to 10 weeks while some are trying to rebuild others are just done for the year. And lets face it if most of the 305 teams could afford to have a spare engine and car sitting around they would probably be racing 360 or 410. 305s are a great beginner class but unless they get out of control like the other classes have they will never explode on to the race scene so to speak. Oh and good luck getting promoters and series's to get on board with a consistent rule package. They all race on the same nights generally. And if they let you choose where you want to race by having all the rules universal you might not come to their track. They can't have that. This way they make you commit to them. ASCS and IMCA have done well with universal region or nation wide rules but for that to become a reality you need a whole bunch of 305s every where before a sanctioning body would be interested. Even then their popularity with the almighty sponsorship dollar would have to get alot better than it is now. Advertising on a 305 360 or 410 price wise isn't that different. Which one would you spend your money on. 10 car field with 2 or 3 cars that are capable of winning or 25 car field with 10 to 12 cars capable of winning. I'm sorry their is no easy answer from what I see but you are trying to break into a very competitive market on a shoe string budget.

Tell me how much money you got and I'll tell you how 
fast you can go!

Dan Henning
LND MOTORSPORTS

Until the Mid America 305's and the Midwest 305's can get together and become one group again, this is nothing but a dream.

Can't believe no one has commented on the Non-wing Nationals yet!

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@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com

Kind of have to dig for that one a bit,Bill W.

Why dont they start promoting it now, rather than keep it buried in their 2009 schedule that I normally wouldnt have looked at since I am not planning on coming to Knoxville for the Nationals etc.

Now if they can just swap days at Osky for the Front Row and Ultimate Challenge I could breeze in,see what I want to see for racing,then head back to the real sprint car capitol of the world: Indianapolis

So you're saying you won't come for it then Andrew?

Savage

I don't think K-Ville is the awnser to the 305 class booming. Look what K-Ville did to the 360's. Allowed dry sumps, allowed alum. heads, allowed light weight componets on the car and in the motor, the list goes on and this was on our beloved steping stone class for sprint cars.

I think someone needs to get a hold of the motor rules and do some major revamping for this 305 class. Wesmar made some good points on how to keep the coast down on these motors. Wish someone would break through with some more. I like some of the points mentioned above like smaller injection. Why couldnt we run smaller injections on these, 360's are limited to 2 3/16 why not limit our steping stone 305's to a smaller injection. Why not outlaw all light weight bolt on's?

No light weight rear ends or axles. Put steel shocks, ujoint, and rotors on them. Put the 3x5's or 4x4's on them. When the rules state UNTOUCHED means UNTOUCHED keep it that way. I'm for the 9:1 or the 10:1 but why in a 305 class do we have some series or tracks running unlimited compression???

Do I have any good ideas here or am I just way out in left field?

Jesse Wagler

I'll probably be there for it,but I'd rather see a non wing race rather than go to the FRC.It would be more appealing to me to make the trip out there if I could see 3 days of non wing racing.

I was just thinking that a Monday night USAC race at Boone would be ok in my book as an alternative.

I'm sure there will be plenty of hype to follow. It is over 11 months away!

Hey Andrew, I think you'll survive the FRC. I'll buy you a beefburger!

If this post isn't results, stories or something c
constructive, it isn't me! 
@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com

You have some valid points Jesse. But I don't think injection is the answer. Plath's car had the smallest injection in the field and won more than its share of races. The other problem with steel shocks and no light weight parts is that now you have slowed down a class that has already been accused of being slow to watch. The smaller wing deal has been done before most people thought they looked like sh#t. And then you have the fact that this is suppose to be budget racing. So now you would have to go buy new steel shocks and new smaller wing and new solid steel drive shafts and so on and so on when you and I both know at least a dozen people who we can buy nice used light weight component from. Not to mention what if they are a multi car team like Rager and Tasker. Or Donnie who is probable going to have a 305 and 360 next year. Do you make them buy two separate cars when they could just change engines in the one car. If you want to start solving these problems than you need to start by someone enforcing the current rules at all of these 305 shows. I'm sure I will get racked across the coals. But all of the 305 races that I have been to so fare. I have yet to a 305 that I thought was teched properly. I was crew chief on about 8 305 wins in the last two years and tech has been a joke. Heck I have pitted next to cars that had tie bolts on them. Know let me qualify that by saying I have not been to every race at every track. But I have seen or been a part of at least 25 show in the last three years. You will never build this class until the rules are properly enforced no matter what thous rules are. While I'm on this soap box I might add that just because you get beat dosen't mean you got cheated. A properly tuned and set up 305 is way faster than one that isn't. You can miss set up on 360 and 410 and still compete with good wheel man. The power makes all the difference. With the reduced power of a 305 you have to get the set up right. Not screaming at you Jesse just my two cents.

Tell me how much money you got and I'll tell you how 
fast you can go!

the non wing show will be crazy..maybe i missed it but are 360's going to still be running weekly? If so are they not going to be running the weekend of the midget nationals? thanks

-Austin Rankin

Jeeezzzzzz..... Smaller moters will never be the answer.... people just find ways to rev them harder with light parts and the prices keep increasing

Bring back the big blocks with a 7000 RPM and 12:1 compression limit....600ci max

900+ HP and 900ftlbs.....about the same as the current 410's for just a more than a 305 and less than a 360 (around 15-20K)

Thanks Chris! I know exactly where you are comming from. Who would be willing to tec these cars right? The small wings do look like crap, but something needs to be done. While were on it......I know the belly rudders on a wing don't really do much for the 305's, but rules stated no rudders on the bottom of the wings. So what do they do they change the rule mid way through the season to catter to a team that tells them "we only have one wing, and it legal in the Invaders" so the rule changes.

So if I build a 360 and put titiaum all through the car and let's just say decide to put a 305 in it a few night's will the rules get changed for me also, cause sprint invaders can do it? This is not the invaders this is a 305 class so if Joe Blow needs to make his car legal and buy some steel shocks, ect. That's what they need to do.

I have heard the oppsite about the 305's at 34 some have said "I can't beleive how fast they are!"

I'm not bashing anyone with what I just stated. It's my own opinion.

Just looking for awnsers on how to keep this class under control!

Jesse Wagler

I think as far as 34 goes. I think they need to implement a tire rule for the RR. They need to continue to improve the tech process. They should not cave in to any other track or sanctioning body. They should keep doing what is best for the 305 at 34. Lead the class not follow. No one else is stepping up. You will always have fast cars and slow cars. But with a little more work I think you could see 2 or 3 more cars win races at 34 next season. I am sure that you could see more competitive racing. I might try to get out their next season and help some of the teams that are struggling. Not that I'm the answer but I think I could help some of them. Is Scott getting a 305 back together? Are you guys running any more SIA shows this year?

Tell me how much money you got and I'll tell you how 
fast you can go!