Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

A Bad Slide Job is a Bad Slide Job, plain and simple.  It does not matter who the driver is that falls short of pulling it off.  You can't just throw the car into the turn with no regard of the outcome.  Yes, even the best get caught now and then, but if I'm not mistaken, this is not the first bad slider from Kyle.  From my viewing and reading, he has accumulated a moniker of one of the most aggressive sprint car drivers on the scene.  Aggressive is a good quality UNTIL you cross the line of taking others out for your benefit and/or risking the safety of others.  (If the driver wants to risk their life and limb without endangering others----go for it----your choice).

I did not see the move so others will have to determine if it falls in one or the other or both.  Saying Timms needs to realize he is in the big boys sandbox does not fly.  He would not have received a slide job like that from Schatz and last I checked he is in the sandbox.  In the end, the viewer was robbed of seeing the true outcome of the race with a potential duel to the checkered flag.  Would it not have been exciting to see the pass being set-up cleanly for a few laps?  Maybe a couple exchanges for the lead?  Maybe??
 

Kyle should not get any benefit or scrutiny because of his status in the motorsports world nor whether you root for him or against him.  He should be judged like any other racer.  Those that have seen the footage will need to judge for themselves.

The racial comments have no place ANYWHERE!!  Another remark that has a negative impact on the sport we love---RACING!!

When Speed Sport refuses to report the story they're complicit and showing approval of the behavior by Leibig. 

https://speedsport.com/sprints-midgets/other-sprint-cars/larson-slides-timms-for-6th-front-row-challenge-win/

I guess this doesn't shock me. Larson dropped an N-bomb and got fired by Ganassi racing. He turned to the sprint car world for a temporay fulltime job. There's an element of the sprint car world that doesn't mind or doesn't care enough to be offended to the point of spending their entertainment dollar elsewhere. I'm guilty of this too. I went to Knoxville during the post covid year and spent my dollars watching Larson win. I didn't protest or make a big deal of it. My guess is the majority of the sprint car fanbase falls into this realm. We're not going to stop watching because there's an element of bigotry in the business. We love watching 410s and we're willing to put up with this embarrassing aspect of sprint car racing. I'm not saying it's pervasive. It's definitely on the rare side, but to deny it's existance is folly. 

I point out this lack of coverage from Speed Sport because it disappoints me. I would rather not see bigotry in the sport I love, and without shining a light on it Speed Sport isn't helping to improve the situation. Nobody is defending Leibig here on Hoseheads, and I wouldn't expect to see that. Will the guys on DirTVision or Flo ever bring it up again? I doubt it. I'm not asking for a fine, sanctions, or anythign like that. I would just like to make sure there's an element of shame thrown at Leibig letting him know it's not cool. If the guys in the room with the loudest voice refuse to use their bully pulpit, that's disappointing. Perhaps they will. We shall see. 

Feedler on Dirtrackr danced around it and refused to call out Leibig. Disappointing.

SprintCarUnlimited post-race interview with Larson didn't ask or touch the subject. Again, disappointing. 

Kudos to Brakehard for pointing it out. 

If I'm missing the opportunity to give someone else credit for pointing it out, please correct me. 

Again, I'm not looking for anything other than shining a light on it when it happens. In my opinion that's the only real effective disinfectant for stuff like this. My guess is the vast majority of us don't want to see this in sprint car racing. Timms walked back his post race comment. Would be good to see Leibig do the same and offer an apology. If not publicly, at least to Larson. Perhaps he has and it's something we will never know about. 

What's worse, a questionable slidejob or a a racial slur? One doesn't justify the other in my opinion. This hits home for me because my wife is Chinese. If he really did call Larson a "dirty chink" I can tell you that's equivalent of dropping an N-Bomb on a black person. 

Hooper, I think you're on the right track for some things but I'd offer this for reasoning to your questions.

For SpeedSport, they weren't there - they just used Bill W's story from OpenWheel101.com. Same with Fiedler - I generally like his content but he's in NC. Jeremy Elliot definitely could have been a bit more pressing on trying to get some answers from Larson but I'm assuming he probably wouldn't have given much.

I think it simply boils down to entities and/or people not wanting to report on it because it's a murky situation. I'd say based off the evidence it's seems very likely Liebig said something but I haven't heard one verified account or seen any video/audio footage to 100% without a doubt confirm so. And some other posters on here and Twitter have been claiming the actual slur (go see Sprinter27R's post if you're curious) but I have yet to see a single person - including Larson - publicly claim or support this.

I would hope people don't take this as any kind of defense for Shane Liebig - I posted my thoughts earlier in thread that the dude seems to have some serious issues and should be admonished for his actions. I personally think it's more likely than not he made some kind of race-related comment, but I'm not surprised in the least that journalists/reporters aren't touching this.

Sprintfan16;

I guess everybody is entitled to judge for themselves what is laughable, but the point I was making was rarely do you see top drivers get caught up in slide jobs gone bad as they usually anticipate them and either don't put themselves in a compromising position or take preventative action to avoide being taken out. You don't see Larson, Rico, Gravel, etc. involved and/or complaining about close racing involving slide jobs since they know who they are racing and what to expect, especially when it is for a win and one car is clearly faster than the other. I don't think based off his remarks that Timms has that experience and/or respect to call out other top tier drivers. in my opinion I think it is part of the maturation process of becoming a top driver.

Timms has just under 300 410 starts, half of which are WoO or High Limit shows. I think he's clearly got the experience, and with the consistent amount of wins, especially including his high profile ones, I'd hope he has the respect. 

Your inference on top drivers rarely getting caught up in slide jobs gone bad makes perfect sense, assuming it's a proper slide job. That's the whole crux of what happened here - it wasn't a good slide job. Kyle himself literally said that it wasn't the cleanest move. 

For what it's worth, after having some time to recollect, Timms did retract what he said and eased off Kyle. 

Yes the young man has walked back his comments and realizes he was completely in the wrong and shouldn't have been in the way of KL. It should not, will not, and simply cannot happen again. If we want this sport to grow and the sprint car ecosystem to thrive, we need KL in victory lane. The man puts eyeballs on the sport we all love. 

I did not realize that Timms had that much 410 experience. I though he was only in his 2nd year of 410 racing, but had a lot of races in midgets. I have to say that I have somewhat of a different perspective of the race knowing that, but I still side on the belief that it was just overly agressive on Larson going for a win.  �

I appreciate your anology of the situation. I only watched a very short clip a few times, not 50 times, but I seen what you did. Dissapointed to hear Timms cry like he did but some children do that even after their pimple days. Maybe he should spend less time around his colorful speaking car owner for potential sponsorship sake.

I have friends of different racial and religious backgrounds and cultures and we make jokes about that shit like we used to fifty years ago. It sucks that the majority of this country is  looking for ways to be offended these days. Can't see the forest for the trees..lets just find something to be offended about then. I swear the china virus made half of this world retarded, does anyone remember Polish, Irish, Italian, etc.. jokes and other funny things from the past that didn't offend us?   Not sorry if this post offended you but I do offer life coaching.if needed.

Who in this scenario is looking to be offended? You think Larson was just hoping that someone would meet him in victory lane and drop an angry racial comment on him? WTF? 

Do you give him credit for laughing at being labeled with the wrong race? 

Here's some life coaching for you. Never start by telling a group about your friends of different races. It just screams old man that is afraid of being labeled as a bigot. 

I see you're a very sensitive and easily triggered person, that's okay I'm pretty used to it now, my wife is a bit like that too. Sometimes her emotions get the best of her, ya gotta watch that stuff.