Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

just wondering...seems the end may be near

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

The end has been near for a while.  He could win a race in the Sides car.  He's good enough and the equipment is as well.  If he chose to run in 2026, he could potentially land a ride he could win some races in, or run his own entry.  But the years of donny in his prime are over.  Not a slam, they're just done.  They have been for years.  Guys like Sweet, Gravel, and Larson, coupled with his age, ended that dominance far more than Ford and Ricky Warners departure did.

We know Paul can field a winning car.Schatz best run lately was the Knoxville Nationals and sounded like Ricky helped on Friday.The equiptment isnt a problem there are just some really top notch drivers in both series,Respect for Sides to step up to help Donny finish the year. His past record of dominating and clean driving  have not been forgotten . Tony could have just finished the year as Kerry hasnt done much better and no bad P.R.

Donny is not going to be in the Kofoid- Macedo- Gravel tier no matter what he is in. If hes out there in something just enjoy it untill he retires and hope maybe he runs a couple more years its possible he could win a race here or there whatever he gets in hes going to run about the same it seems.

Of course Kerry is doing no better---he will be 54 shortly, and hasn't been a top tier driver in a while now.  In Kerry's prime, he wasn't anywhere near Donny's level.  So, being 7 years older than Donny, I wouldn't have expected the TSR car to come to life all of the sudden.  Tony didn't fire Donny because he expected Kerry to suddenly make the car perform.  From his comments, he and Donny obviously just needed to be apart.  

Truth!  All of it.  

I like the combo and how many people have stepped up to help. Winged Nation recently interviewed Donny and he said he's had all kinds of people reach out to help, and even people who he didn't think liked him.

I think DS can still compete for wins.

Is Sweet past his prime? And will he retire at the end of this year? 

Keep It Real

Sweet is absolutely past his prime.  He was unlikely to win the next WoO title when he left, and it looks like a great chance he will not win the HL series this year.   I doubt he will retire though because he appears to have a lot of very productive years left.    Everyone progresses, and regresses differently, so who knows how quickly it will fall off.  Schatz's falloff wasn't that quick and severe.  He had a lot of very productive years after he past his prime as well. 

Let me help you.... same riddle as before, the crew chief matters.  

Sure does.  And there are many great ones. 

No, he's only 39.  He lost his wrench of the past 8 years, of which he had his most success of his career during that span.  Contrary to belief on this board, crew chiefs are super critical to the success of a driver and team. 

As I just said, most of us are very aware of the importance of a great crew chief.  However, you can't think there are only a couple of them in the whole country, can you?  There are lots of great minds behind many of these cars.  Sweet will turn 40 this year, and if he follows along the same path as the majority of drivers, he will continue to decline with the possibility of a surge or bump in wins here and there, and possibly a championship.  But, back to the question that I was responding to, yes, he is past his prime.  Doesn't mean he sucks.  It means his prime years are gone.  As will be witnessed in 10 years when looking back at his win totals and championships by year.  

Anyone heard where Sheldon is going next year and who will be in the 17?

I think both Schatz and Sweet are now on the back of their successful years. They have more behind them than they do ahead of them. Both have had careers that will allow them to get rides for probably however long they would like to. Its going to happen to Gravel eventually too, same with Rico. I think Sweet and Donny are still capable of winning races but not 10+ and certainly not 25+ like Donny had done many years. I think Sweet may have 1 more championship in him, Donny's are probably gone but I think he can possibly win a couple bigger races here and there. For Donny, I think he will run as long as he would like too. Sweet, I think that may hinge on Napa. If Napa ever stops their involvement, I am not sure if Kasey will want to field a full time touring team. If Kasey stops, I don't think Sweet will go full time ride searching. I have felt with him being involved with Silver Dollar, creating HL, and other business ventures, he prepared himself for life after racing inside the car. 

As far as the Sides car, I can see there being potential there. Jason Sides as an owner/car chief/crew chief I think is pretty underrated. I am interested to see what Schatz does in this car because I think this could potentially be a quality ride if the right driver gets in it. 

For sure!  Sweet possibly has a championship (or even 2) in him yet.  And, like you said, after winning 6 titles in a row combined, if he wins 2 more, that means the best years are behind him.   

Schatz?  I would put his chances of winning another title at less than 1% and that's even if Ricky and Jesus were to put a ride together for him in 2026.  Win some races?  Sure.  Beat Gravel, Macedo, Buddy, Logan, and any other major driver that joins the tour next year on a consistent basis?  No.  

Prime is a wider window of time vs peak.   Prime is typically 10-12 years in this sport historically, which leads to a ramp up and a ramp down from their peak during their prime.  They are typically in their peak for 3-5 years.  This is why I say Sweet is still in his prime, but not at his peak. Still a top level driver in the sport but isn't winning at the same clip, but still winning but not dominating.  He has past his peak, but not out of his prime.  This is the same as professional athletes, they ramp up and they ramp down from their peak.  Those years +/- are where their prime begins and ends in regards to the peak.  Its not a light switch situation. 

Most sprint car drivers are in the prime between 28-42.  Usually depends on when they get started.  I would say that window is moving to an earlier age because drivers are starting sooner and the transition from what they are racing is more applicable earlier shortneing the learning curve.  Look at the guys from CA running winged outalw karts.  Very applicable transition.

There are plenty talented crew chiefs, but there are few great ones.  There would be only  a handful of active ones I would consider great.  Doesn't mean there aren't high level people turning wrenches, but the divde between great and very good albeit seems small, but can be large in the sport. 

Not everyone ages at the same rate.  Donnie Schatz is past his prime at 48.  Sweet is 39 and doesn't show the same ability as a couple of years ago though other factors may have something to do with that.  Brad has a lot on his plate with running High Limit and being part of the management of Silver Dollar Speedway and is obviously looking towards his future being behind the wheel ends.  How long NAPA remains a huge sponsor is questionable.  Sweet has always been a hustler for sponsors and was a rel pest locally here in Grass Valley begging for money when starting out.  The NAPA thing came about when Bart Riebe, a local dealer and the second largest NAPA dealer in the country with 22 dealerships came through.  Bart retired a couple of years ago and sod them all  back to NAPA so we'll see how long that money tree lasts.  Other guys older than Schatz and Sweet that still got it, including Dale Blaney in Ohio and Andy Forsberg at Silver Dollar's Fall 360 Nationals were winners this weekend.

Has anyone run out of fingers yet when counting the wins of Tony's car since Shatz left it?

Fair enough assessment.  

Curious how you assess a great crew chief vs. a good one?  Ricky Warner worked with arguably one of the top-3 drivers in the history of 410's and now works with one of the current top 5-10 drivers in the country.  Paul Silva works with arguably one of the top-3 most versatile drivers in the modern era.  He also did win 4 straight 360 Nationals, but it was with a driver that had already won a 360 Nationals prior.  Cody Jacobs works with a driver who has won in numerous other cars, with numerous other wrenches.  We can go on and on, but these great crew chiefs MUST have great talent in the seat.  Many of these great drivers, when in their prime, will perform at a high level with a "good" crew chief.  

I don't remember an average driver jumping in a great car, with a great crew chief, and suddenly bolting to the top of the sprint car world.  I do remember plenty of instances where a great driver, in his prime, wins races and contends in whatever he is in.  (and this goes for all forms of racing)  

Body of work is what delinates good from great.  How long have you been at that high level of sustained success and how many different drivers have you done it with.

Think Karl Kinser.  Long time success, handful of drivers pre and post Steve.  Kelly Kinser wins a WoO at Moberly, MO, I think, in his substituation for Mark with Karl. 

Davey Brown.  Regardless of whos been in the 69K its been fast.  I think Kreitz also plays a part in this not to dismiss Davey, but Kreitzy knows his shit too. Davey has won pretty much everything.  

Warner has been fast everywhere he has been starting with Tyler.  Ricky did his work in Pa before the road. Now he and Rico  are fast and they were fast last year with bad luck.   Ricky took a step back for personal/health reason once he was asked to leave TSR.    He's been one of the best over the past 20 years. I'm curious what would have been had he never went Nascar and would have stayed at KKR in 2006 prior to going to Schatz.   Can't take away his success as a crew chief as the data suggests he critcal.  

Silva has won with about everyone in his car going back to Shane and now with Kyle.  He was fast when he worked for Rico on his car prior to starting his own team.  

I need to see Prutzman replicate the same high level of success with another team and driver that he had at KKR.  If he does then he would have a seat at the active table.  He helped someone at Port this year, Newton, and they became very fast.  Car faster than the driver it appeared. 

Dietz has been good at JJR and won big races.  He's one with a little more success, maybe needs a title and another big win to be in the conversation because he has been pretty good over the last decade at JJR.

Jacobs wasn't really someone until he got to Big Game and wtih Gravel.   Time will tell on how his body of work plays out. Too early to know. 

I'll use Bayston as an average driver getting with a great crew chief.  He couldn't drive a peg up a dead mules ass in the 14 this year or the 5 last year. Bowers and Jackson can turn wrenches and have won, but he was terrible in those cars.  Clearly they couldn't give him what he needed to be fast.  He jumps in the W car and he's a rocket.  That what great ones do.  Sliva made Bayston look like he was a world beater in CA.   Silva didn't do much for Donny, which is interesting and continues to make me believe Donny needs the car set up a certain way to be fast.