Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Seems to be a central PA problem mostly I think. Fans only show up for big shows even though the regular shows are the best bargain IMO (I happen to like SLM's and 358 sprints so I love a good 2 division show). I'd say a lot of it also has to do with the insane number of 410 races we have on the yearly schedule now. When I watch races from around the country on flo or dirtvision, they usually have good crowds. NARC 410 races in CA are jam packed with fans even with only 16 cars last week. Most IRA shows seem to be well attended too. 

A

I was out at Big Diamond on Friday 8/1/25. Place was packed, and that is no exageration. Local teams and drivers, a streaming service that charges enough to make staying home challenging, seems to work. Modifieds most always a good race. What are sprint tracks doing wrong?

In my opinion, the powers that be in the sprint car community are behind what the sprint car tracks are doing, right or wrong. The evolution of winged 410 sprint cars has advanced to the point where your average race track can't financially support a weekly 410 class of cars built to compete on the WoO/ H-L level.

I have been on chemo since two days before thanksgiving last November.  I don't have any immunity and have to avoid crowds.  Consequently, a paid the $500 for both Flo and Dirtvision and don't give a shit what people think about me because I watch from home.  There are rumors that my son is going to try to get a parking spot up in 3&4 for the Jerry Richert Memorial so I can attend my first live race in quite some time.  If he gets there early enough to get a spot I will attend.  It's a special race for me as my first race in 1960 to watch Jerry Richert Sr. race.  For some of us that folks from the original car generation of the 6's streaming is our link to the sport and for some the only way we can watch.  To those who want to see streaming prices increase to per event or end altogether.  F*** you.  Instead of wishing it was more difficult for people like me how about helping an older or sick person get to a race?  

Stan Meissner

This issue has been going on in different divisions for over 30-40 years.  Take northern asphalt mods for example.  You had big blocks type cars running weekly at Thompson, Conn., Stafford Springs, Conn, Riverside Park Speedway, Mass, Riverhead, NY,  Wall Stadium, NJ and various other tracks and what happened?  NASCAR started the Modified Tour races and booked shows into these tracks.  At first all was well as you would have your local, fan favorites vs a few outsiders who towed in because of increased prize money and/or great seasonal payoff point fund.  Most of the shows were on week days so as not to interfere with local racing.  Then promoters and/or sanctioning groups started to run these shows on regular track nights, and forced teams to decide if they wanted to run for big rewards but not at their local tracks or not tow so far and run their local events.  Now the weekly shows at the surviving tracks are less powerful SK Type mods.  And there are at least three "Tour Type Modified" sactioning groups with slight differences in rules packages.

The same thing happened with the dirt modifieds with touring groups although, it did not help that 4 or 5 big block tracks shut down and were developed into other business operations.  Again the tracks that are left in the area have always run a lower division as their main feature, Grandview and Big Diamond or are switching to different regulations to attract cars and fans.  And by the way the shows are excellent if you are into that type of racing.

I always felt that over time the same thing would happen to sprint car racing where the weekly racing headline divisions would become 358/360 and 305s and when the big boys came to town they would put in a 410 or try and run against WoO or HL with what they have.  I hope the fans realize WoO and HL are only 15 to 18 cars and need local cars to make up a full field.  Look at some of the names of drivers when touring groups run in areas that do not have local 410 sprints.

I guess the answer is car owners, drivers, promoters, and fans are going to have to make decisions about what they want and how they are going to get what they want.  In the mean time I will stick to USAC on Flo and fill in my racing fix with what I want and when I want.  For several years now regular local shows are not worth the cost or travel time. 

Just out of curiosity, do you have skin in the game?  What are the tracks making from Flo or Dirtvision?  I haven't heard anywhere what anyone pays anyone for the cost of streaming.  So if you know, I'd love to hear.

However from reading through your posts there's a few things I'd like to comment on.  

First off, do you think that the admission is the only way the track makes money?  There's tons of ways they're making money.  Those billboards you see on the tracks aren't just put there because someone asked nice.  

Second of all as for streaming hurting racing.  Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but there's no way to know since the cats out of the bag.  However 60-70 years ago the NFL was in a similar spot.  Many NFL owners didn't want to televise their games since they thought that people wouldn't come to the games if they could just watch it at home (I chuckle at this when I think about the TVs from 60-70 years ago, it certainly wasn't like being there) so they came up with the blackout rule which, as I understand it means if the stadium didn't sell out they wouldn't show that game in that DMA.  That was all well and good until around 2017 or so the Jacksonville Jaguars had a good season but still nobody was coming to their games.  They had been terrible for years and many people assumed that's why nobody was coming.  But when they were good and still nobody was coming they found that most people weren't going to the games because they had been terrible and they hadn't been able to watch them in years, so they kind of gave up on being fans.  I believe this is the same with sprint car racing.  I can't really go anymore (for reasons I'll get into later) so I love being able to see a race when I have time.

Third, I do agree that there's an issue with dirt track racing or auto racing in general.  I also believe that in 50-75 years, there's not really going to be any auto racing.  And I really don't think there's a fix for it.  The core problem in my eyes comes from the auto manufacturers.  Cars today suck in my opinion, they all look the same they all have tons of screens and the average guy can't work on them.  Which means young kids (teenagers) aren't working on them.  They're not learning about them and to be honest most kids don't care about cars today.  Many kids today don't even get their license when they can.  So the majority of kids don't care about cars today, they certainly don't care about which one is faster.  Which is why I don't think there's a fix for it.

The other thing is, people (especially younger people) don't want to sit through a dirt racing event.  Lets be honest, you sit there for 3-4 hours or more and there's maybe 15 minutes of excitement.  Other than that, there's hot laps (which mean nothing to the show), time trials (which I don't care what anyone says they are BORING), heats which have kind of turned into a snooze fest, then some track farming.  And then the features, which if a 30 lap feature goes green to checker is going to take at most 8 minutes.  It will take them longer than that to push the cars off to start the race.  Personally, I love all that and loved it growing up.  But kids today live on Tik Tok and other short video places, they're used to "getting to the point" lol.  Sitting for 3 hours to see action for 8 minutes is not how the younger kids roll.  Auto racing isn't the only sport to be getting this treatment.  Baseball is too, it's too slow moving (even for me lol).  70 years ago it was the most popular sport in the U.S. and now I don't know anyone that watches it regularly.

I could be totally wrong but I just don't see auto racing surviving.  It's progress or whatever.  My kids don't want to go to the races (and I don't blame them) and I'm not going to drive an hour one way to see them by myself.  However even though it's not near as good as being there, I'm glad I can watch on Flo or DV.  I guess the best thing I can say is, just enjoy it well you can.

Don't be so naive to think that the only people streaming racing on Flo and DV are people who think it's cheaper or people who thinks it's too hot or cold. Read Stan's post above. There are those of us, myself uncluded, who are physically unable to attend in person. For us, streaming is a blessing. I miss like hell going to the races. Every Saturday I was either at Waynesfield, Eldora, Lawrenceburg, or Atomic. Those days are over for me.

BTW, if you have to "force yourself" to go to a race - don't go.

Stan, you are in my prayers my friend.

Here in PA we see the local tracks choosing from 5 different streaming choices.

Williams Grove - Dirtvision weekly racing

Lincoln - Flo - special events only

Port Royal - Flo - weekly racing

BAPS - Sprintcarunlimited PPV - special events only

Selinsgrove - Typically no streaming 

Tracks can renegotiate too.    Lincoln switched from weekly Flo broadcasts to special broadcasts only.        For tracks,  do these choices present a problem or an opportunity ?           My opinion - it is an opportunity.

One of my pet peeves is some a-hole I don't know and will never meet worrying about which streaming channels I subscribe to.  I pay their invoice once per year and they're happy with my prompt payments.  That's all that counts.  I won't go to eight class programs locally and won't watch them on streaming.  

This Friday is my final treatment then we get another scan.  My WM transformed into DLBCL and they had to switch to R-CHOP after five BR treatments out of six.  I was all set to ring the bell and had to switch treatments and start over.  I'm looking forward to the break from the treatments as they are on a 21 day cycle and take a lot out of a person.  They can get a complete remission on the DLBCL but the WM is incurable but manageable.  Right now between the disease and Canadian fire smoke I'm laying low indoors like it's 2020 all over again.  I have compromised immunity and have to get a shot a few days after every treatment as well.

Streaming works well for people like me, car owner, sponsors and family of participants.  Drivers watch which line is working for qualifying on streaming right up until they get pushed off.  Floracing shares the same annual fee with fans of college sports, bull riding and a bunch more so I think that is to their advantage when considering price point.  Happy streaming!

Stan Meissner

we probably went to 30+ sprint car races a year until 2022.  there are a variety of reasons like my kids getting older and involved in activites.  we also found other things we like to do like minor league baseball.

i really don't think the rise of flo and dirtvision has a lot to do with it.  you can't really top 2020-2021 with pa sprint car racing one of the few things going on in the world because of covid.  everybody was here.  contrast that to now where even the top pa guys like macri, dietrich, and marks are on the road.  you're not even seeing the best pa has to offer let along the best sprint car racing has to offer.  i haven't been watching the features at port as often.

williams grove still doesn't seem to put in the effort to put butts in the seats.  it could be easy to forget it's even there without the sound of the cars on friday nights.  they have had bad luck with weather...but if people are traveling a distance and camping to see your races...you should have cars on the track whenver it's possible.  day time races seem out of the question.  people will always whine about rain outs...but it really does feel like they're looking for reasons to not race.  when they are on the track...there's typically little passing and the field of drivers isn't what it was 3 or 4 years ago.

It's called change and it is here in every aspect of our life. You can embrace it or you can just sit there and complain about it �‍♂️