Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I wrote something pretty much the same as this on Williamns Grove Facebook page under their cancellation notice for the WoO race. It was pretty quicly removed. Evidently they didn't like my opinion. Here she goes: I really feel sorry for the Grove as well as all the tracks on all these rainouts. Attendabnce has been way down at all the tracks on regular shows for years.. Attendance is good on special shows. With special shows being rained out they are not making enough money to stay in operation or want to stay in operation. I have both Dirt Vision & Flo Racing but I think they both need to go away. I don't think we need the WoO or the High Limit either. Let's face it when you run with either group you are trying to keep up with the Joneses. These teams have the best of everything.and lots of it.That is why costs are skyrockting. I'm sorry, but you don't need motors that cost $70,000.00 to have a good race. Both groups are traded in the stock market so where is your attendance money going? In the mean time we lose the drivers and cars fans want to see on a regular basis. Thus the low attendance. I realize that is not the only reasons for low attendance but it is most of it. The 305's race is usually better than the 410's The Hyper racing show at Greenwood Valley drew about 80 cars and the racing was grest. Those that are brainwashed on 410's  & the WoO & High Limit will probably disagree. I stated to the Grove that when you get to close to the trees you can't see the forest. Evidently the are in love with the trees. Been going to the races since 1964 so I know where we were and the direction we are heading and I don't like it.

Why do Flo and DV "need to go away"? And do away with the WoO and HL too? Huh?

I've seen some wild theories on here, but this takes the cake.

Not wild theories at all larson. All are killing attendance at regular shows. Empty stands will put tracks out of business just like a shoe store that nobody will buy shoes from. I've been to several tracks that noway they were going to pay the purse with what was in the stands. Lose your special show money and you arte in trouble. The Grove already lost 3 of 4 WoO shows that they were depending on to make money. They did have one WoO show and two speedweek shows that were good but that money needs to be spent on all the other shows that lost money. Simple common sense math. Money in, Money out. When the money in is less than the money out you have problems. No different than not being able to pay your rent or car payment.

I guess you're entitled to an opinion. I think yours is WAY out in left field, but it's still your opinion. There has to be at least 1 national touring circuit in the land. That's what ties the different regions in the country together, and allows for the locals to go out and race with the 'big guns.'   It is also one of the main ways casual fans are introduced to sprint cars.  Many new fans are brought into this sport by going out to a World of Outlaws race for example.  

You claim attendance is good on specials shows, and way down for regular shows-------and your solution to the revenue issue is to get rid of the shows that are the ones bringing in the money?   Sounds like the decision the Chicago Tribune made to sell its only profitable business in 2009----the Cubs.  Didn't work out well for them as they are in severe financial distress.  Who would have known that selling off your only profitable enterprise would cause you financial problems? 

Streaming is the only way forward for pretty much any sport in the world, especially grass-roots type sports.  It's not going away.  

Motors and racing costs have been out of control since the day the 2nd race car was built.  It will always be relative to what teams are willing to spend to stay ahead-----the spirit of racing.  $70,000 motors?  Our sportsman drivers were spending $20,000 on motors back in the 90's and that was a hobby class at a local track.  I feel like your entire opinion, which you are once again entitled to, wishes we could put sprint car racing 20-40 years backwards.  This would not grow the sport as you think it would.  It would shrink it.  Things are going to have to move forward and change.  There always has been, and always will be heavily funded teams, extremely underfunded teams, and teams that are in the middle.  Always.  Was in the 50's.  60's.  70's.  80's.  90's.  2000's.  2010's.  Today.  And in the 2030's it will be the same way.  All relative.  Even when you started going in 1964 it was too expensive for many of those guys then!  Just using different numbers. 

Seems to me that your understanding of how the world works and how that affects racing are a total disconnect. Do you really think that the tiny cut of money the track gets from Flo or Dirt Vision is equal to spectators paying $20.00 and up through the turnstills? When new contracts are up with these folks maybe just matbe they won't renew. Dirt Track Digest and Sprintcar Unluimited are doing the right thing. $25.00 and up to see their shows and I bet the tracks get dollars not cents. Wouldn't it be great to see Macri, Marks Schuhart and others ever week. I'd bet the groves attendancd would be a lot better than the couple hundred that show up for a regular show. Then they wouldn;t have to wait for specil shows to see them.The Port & Lincoln are also having attendance issues. Do you know who isn't? Big Diamond has good crowds on a constant basis. No WoO, No High Limit, No Flo, No Dirt Vision. They do use Dirt Track Digest.I would much better like to see the tracks and drivers get trhe mnoney and not shareholders and leaders of these orginations. Motors and all other parts don;t have to cost what they do. These traveling groups with corporate sponsorship are willing to pay whatever an engine builder or parts manfacture want. You want to beat then then you need to spend the same. Let's face it, the world is full of greed and everybody deserves more. Time to stop this merry go round.,

Some years back, we were at a very rural friend's home for Thanksgiving. His grandfather gave us his opinions about what's the matter with this country. He said the biggest mistake the government made was when they built nice highways. Instead of buying from the local stores, anybody could use those nice highways to drive to bigger towns and buy goods at better prices with bigger selections. It was an interesting point of view, to say the least, but it highlighted something that bugs most of us- change.

I'm not picking on you because of your age. I'm probably about 10 years younger than you. My first sprint car race was in 1973. Back then, racing was very much a local sport. But, the world has changed a lot since then and it's not all been good.

I don't feel like you have to worry about "taking sprint car racing to the next level" harming local sprint car racing. It has already killed off local sprint car racing throughout most of the country. It's all part of "progress", I guess. I'm in rural, eastern South Dakota. There was a time that 7 tracks within a reasonable driving distance had weekly sprint car races. 6 other tracks had occasional sprint car shows. Today, one track has weekly 305 sprints, one has 410 & 305 sprints about half of the weekends they could, and 5 others have occasional sprint car races. The times, they are a changin'.

In the long run, it seems to me that streaming will help local racing. It's in its infancy. Once streaming matures and starts paying dollars to tracks instead of pennies, things will improve. Local attendance has been going south for decades- since before the internet and before the World of Outlaws. It's change. 

From my soapbox, I can see a bigger issue that is affecting sprint car racing is the lack of cost containment. If the local teams have to have World of Outlaws budgets to put a car on the track every Saturday night and for the once or twice the big guys come through, local racing will go away. If the powers that be could lower the cost to compete, their own ranks would swell as well as the number of locals that show up for their big shows.

We pretty much agree. To spend the money they are spending to race against these traveling groups a few times a year is rediculous, but big heads and egos seem to rule. Rules can be put in place to cut costs, Instead the rules are the same as the traveling groups, who have corporate sponsors. From a financial standpoint it makes no sense at all, it does make it difficult to beat them however. Attendance? Higher purses means higher admission prices and food prices. Tough on a family. Lower the cost to compete and the admission. I will guarantee you the desire to compete and win is no different if it's 2,000 to win or 10,000 to win. Some big paying races have been real snoozers.I hope you're right on streaming but I have my doubts. Higher fees to watch will definatly make one think if they should stay home or go. A family, no matter the size, can all watch for the same price as one. Watching on the tube is not the same as being there and that is a fact. We'll see on this one.

Let's just get rid of cell phones and go back to landlines. Let's get rid of cable and satellite TV and go back to rabbit ears and 3 channels of TV. Internet...gone.

I live in western Ohio. I am a big fan of the Central PA sprint car scene. Should I make the 1000 mile round-trip to be at the Grove, Lincoln, or Port Royal each week?

You have to embrace change and progress. It is inevitable. 

I would contend that there are other factors that  have contributed to the downfall of local weekly racing.   For years I went to every ASCS National show that came to the Dallas area.    The WoO didn't come to the Dallas area for years.  I wouldn't go to any weekly shows because I won't sit through eight IMCA classes to see the one sprint car class I wanted to see.  That's what weekly racing has changed into here and in many areas of the country.   

This guys does make one point that is relevant though.   Streaming is definetly hurting attendance.   Now I can watch that ASCS race on DirtVision.   I don't go to the track and buy a ticket.   I don't buy a hamburger and drink at the concession stand either.  

Flo just needs to take care of these tracks/promoters.  They should be making good money off those races when Flo is there

Flo just needs to take care of these tracks/promoters.  They should be making good money off those races when Flo is there

I don't see how you can take care of the tracks as well as Flo or Dirt Vision? How much are you willing to pay for a yearly subscription? It's 200 and 300 a year now. Cost would be out of reach for all. They then would have to go the route of Dirt Track Digest or Sprincar unlimited which is by the race and is $27.99 and up PER RACE, and can be watched by as many people as you can get in front of a screen. You also lose concession money. None of that cuts the cost of racing which is the other problem. Local tracks need their own rules to cut costs, We can;t be catering to racing organizations and teams funded by corporations. Local grassroots racing was never ment to be turned into NASCAR. NASCAR, BTW, is failing big time. When you go to BAPS or Port Royal you are sitting in the seats taken from NASCAR tracks because they didn't want the empty seats brodcast on TV. 

Thanks for assuming I have no understanding.  

Streaming is the reality of the entire world right now.  Either sprint car racing gets on board, or it dies.  Good news!  It's on board!  I don't know what the magic formula is going to be for revenue sharing for tracks/streaming, but let it happen organically.  It will happen.  If streaming goes away, it all dies because the tracks are never going to magically fill up with fans again.  Ever.  Too much else going on in life right now and times have changed too much---as they have during any other 30-40 period in the history of the world.  

I don't for one second think national tours killed local racing.  Quite the contrary.  I believe the national series are the last big lifeline for this sport, so keep your fingers crossed it continues at the trajectory it has right now.  Otherwise, you won't see a race anywhere in 20 years.  Embrace the streaming, and visit a track whenever you can.  Just do your part because you're not going to stop the evil world of streaming.  No chance.  

Spoken like someone who has skin in the game????????

The price to play can be throttled but the parts suppliers and engine builders would have nothing to do with that. Would love to see a 20/20 wing rule in place. 20 sq ft no steeper than 20 degrees. Get rid of all that wing slider crap. Small front wings and sideboards. No dished, no wickers. Wings used mostly as rudders and not downforce. Jumping off the soapbox.....

I hate commercials but I sure hope dirtvision and Flo keep attracting them because it is dirt cheap to watch these races from my basement. I can see double or triple the price if they have to pay the track 5k or 10k for an event. Can't live in the past as some of you have said. Better get on board or get left in the dust. 

I watched the Midget, Sprint car event on Dirtvision at the New Tulsa Speedway last night.  A good show but the grandstands were only about half full.  Why?  One of the reasons is, charging children aged 13 and over the general admission charge of $20.  This, when they offer a $5 dollar discount to vets and seniors.  I am both and I, like most vets and seniors can afford the $20 charge, when few 13-18 year olds CAN NOT.  They represent the future drivers, owners, sponsors and fans and the are priced out of reason.  If mom and dad and 2 or 3 teens wish to attend the races, how many can afford $100 for a night of racing?  I have supported the new Tulsa Speedway since being built and have attended a number of events.  For the most part I agree with their policies.  However, they should re-think the general admission for children.

So if he doesn't agree with you, he either doesn't understand how the world works, or he must have skin in the game. 

That's pretty condescending.

The big question is how much $$$ the streaming services pay the tracks..... does anyone here know?

You're just plain goofy. "Either sprint car racing gets on board or it dies." Sprint cars have been around for close to a century, I don't see it dying soon. I'll tell you right now that streaming does hurt attendance, I've been a witness to it. I know people that stay home and watch racing because it's cheaper for them and their families anymore. Hell sometimes I'll stay home and watch if the temps get above 90. I used to go to the tracks in any kind of weather, now I don't have to freeze or overheat myself. If there was no streaming I would force myself to get to the tracks no matter the weather.

 As far as the condition of sprint car racing. It's headed toward a nascar like deal, it's just about there like it or not. I've been sticking around my local tracks to watch the 305s and they can put on decent shows and I like their handicapping. Apparently the drivers and teams don't mind it either as they show up at more than sixty strong. Sprint car racing today is what you ,make of it, there's plenty around and it aint going anywhere soon.

I know what one central PA track gets from Flo and it'sd not too bad right now. I won't mention the figure because of the know it alls giving me crap. It's quite a bit better than just a couple years ago.