Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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I read that NASCAR has made changes to their qualifing system for some tracks.  It seems they are concerened about it being fairer due to changes of the weather and track conditions. I do not completely understand their changes but it makes me wonder if a better method might be possible on dirt tracks were there could be even more changes during the qualifying times?

So let's beat on this for awhile?

It's already been done. The outlaws divide qualifying into groups based on car count and the All Stars had a format where they broke qualifying down by heat races and you only timed against those in your heat. There's no such thing as fair but both of those formats are about as fair as it gets.

Remind me because I can not remember, Do they break them up in grougs of two for the Knoxville Nationals now or do they still run all of the cars on a Qualifying night consecutive in 1 group?

The Nationals Luck of the draw was always so huge (and still is) But if your coming out the 48th car to time it was usually bad news for the driver. Although occasionally you would get a late pill drawer that would come out and lay down a top 5 lap.

It's not as huge as you think.  Donny Schatz has gone out at all different times in his qualifying night, and the cream still rose to the top.  I watched one year as qualifying times slowly dropped as the session went on, but then Larson goes out 2nd from the end, and lays down the 4th quickest time.  (or something similar to that---may not be exact)

Can someone benefit from the earlier draw?  Not really.  If you are an "average" car, and go out 4th, and set quick time, you start 8th in your heat.  Because you're an average car, you'll likely not run through the field and make an automatic transfer into the A, and will either end your night in the B, or transfer to the A and be mired in the back of that event.  Final score will likely reflect that you're an average car.

If you go out late, and you're a high-quality car, and you time in 10th quick, you'll start back row of your heat, likely work your way to a transfer, (or into a great spot in the B and transfer) and then work your way to a great finish in the A main----because you're a quality car.  You will likely gain more points than the average car example above.

End of the day, the cream always rises to the top at the Nationals, which is why they have the best qualifying format on earth----IMO

At a couple track/events I have been at the heats were follow the leader. Sometimes the dashes were too. They worked on the track after and the feature was very good. So perhaps some of the less famous local tracks this is more of an issue than at the big races/events? Often times starting position is very important and the qualifing times didn't very much.

I think a bigger factor in the feature being good vs. the heats & dashes being follow-the-leader is the additional laps.  While some tracks are exceptions, winged sprint car racing generally produces poor racing in shorter distances.  That has nothing to do with the type of qualifying format.

Signature here.

Excellent points. It seems like the number of laps in general matches the number of cars. Eight car heat, 8 laps. Four lap dash with 4 cars. So if you have to come from the back you have to pass one car every lap. What is the down side of more laps in the heats, semi mains and dashes?  Better racing?

Largely agree, but occasionally there's an exception.  Don't remember the year, but it wasn't that long ago that Larson didn't even make the feature on his qualifying night.   The track was locked down and noone could pass all night.   Just goes to show it's the Nationals and anything can happen.

I've wondered this exact same thing.  My only real concern would be that it would be more wear and tear on the track, causing it to rubber up faster.  If the racing was good this would be fine but in a lot of heat races after about 2 laps there's not much passing.  My guess is doing this at a place like Knoxville could really throw a wrench into their track prep.  But I'm no expert the track prep guy is strawser.

I am thinking more about the smaller or local shows than the big multi day shows. It seems to me that the bigger events/multi day shows have better track prep folks in general.  It seems some days the track prep is just off and they fix it after the heats are not good. I wonder if a few more laps would not improve those races?  Maybe not?

Yes, I believe 2019.  I don't remember why the track was so heavy that year on Wednesday night, but it was!  (I feel like it didn't rain in the 48 hours prior, but maybe I'm wrong) There are definitely exceptions to the rule.  However, they also admitted they missed the setup completely that night.  If you remember, Schatz was also in that field and he did make it from the back of the heat to the A-main that night.  (I cannot remember if he transferred through the heat, or won the B?)  Either way, he qualified for Saturday's feature on a night when almost everyone else had issues-----because of experience, talent, and crew.  

Aside from a few exceptions, it overwhelmingly favors those that hit the track with the fastest cars.  (the way it should be)  

Not disagreeing with you.................

Since the cars began to "equalize" a few decades ago, almost all heats and dashes have, for the most part, been follow the leader once the first 2 laps are completed.  This is nothing really new.  I remember some phenomenal heat races.  However, 95% of all heat races I've ever seen------from the 80's through today, in all types of cars------have been pretty boring.  (Unless of course you considered watching Kinser come through a full invert of 360 caliber sprint cars to be exciting)

I've often wondered how the feature races would differ if they skipped heats and the dash and just lined up the feature on qualifying lap times. Probably not much different than they do now.