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The_Truth_Detector
December 29, 2021 at 08:02:40 AM
Joined: 05/17/2008
Posts: 507
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1700+ micros at the Tulsa Shootout

370+ midgets slated for the Chili Bowl

World of Outlaws thriving

All Stars thriving

Two new national series for 2022

 

Tell me again how horrible the economy is...




SprintFan19
December 29, 2021 at 03:58:56 PM
Joined: 03/05/2012
Posts: 181
Reply

I'll take the bait...

Maybe two new national series has more to do with trying to choke out USAC than it does than an abundance of new sprint car teams. No need to eliminate the Silver Crown cars, it's a much less sustainable operation to begin with.

The All Stars are out of the shadow of the previous owner as well.  It's a lot easier to attract sponsors when Tony Stewart is attached to the brand.  As far as talent goes, there was better talent in previous years.

 

 



The_Truth_Detector
December 29, 2021 at 06:08:58 PM
Joined: 05/17/2008
Posts: 507
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Reply to:
Posted By: SprintFan19 on December 29 2021 at 03:58:56 PM

I'll take the bait...

Maybe two new national series has more to do with trying to choke out USAC than it does than an abundance of new sprint car teams. No need to eliminate the Silver Crown cars, it's a much less sustainable operation to begin with.

The All Stars are out of the shadow of the previous owner as well.  It's a lot easier to attract sponsors when Tony Stewart is attached to the brand.  As far as talent goes, there was better talent in previous years.

 

 



USAC (and POWRi) isn't going anywhere and will continue on with their very loyal fanbase. WRG would not form two new series if there was not a market for it, the new series will thrive on their own (leveraging WoO events for exposure) and the WRG has made it clear they have no intention of encroaching on USAC and POWRi.

Sponsors don't funnel money into anything unless they are running in the "black", that is simple economics.

The previous owner of the All Stars sold the series three administrations ago and sponsorship has never been an issue since the purchase by TS, it has been a long 6 years of rebuilding a brand that GW decimated. The thickest checkbook in the world couldn't turn that around overnight.

This post wasn't about talent, but since you mentioned it, there are over 1,600 racers in Tulsa this week gunning for $1,000 to win and $100 to start. Of those, about 30 of them have a shot of that $1,000 but 1,500 CARS are capable of winning the $1,000. That's because there is a LOT of cash being spent by wealthy car owners (and families) as well as companies buying vinyl space on cars. One only needs to go back to 2008/2009 during the financial crisis to draw a fair comparison.

Myself? I think it's an awesome time to be a race fan.




RodinCanada
MyWebsite
December 29, 2021 at 06:46:34 PM
Joined: 07/24/2016
Posts: 1432
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I saw a video of the 1st few heat races today from Tulsa  the stands were bare so what value is there in advertising on one of these cars.?

 


Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

SprintFan19
December 29, 2021 at 07:35:44 PM
Joined: 03/05/2012
Posts: 181
Reply

There's plenty of rich fools and plenty of poor fools.  Racing has them both

why do "fully funded" and sponsored teams fold then if sponsors only fund operations that are "in the black"

Basing it off the logic of economics, no sensible sponsor would put their name on one of the 1570 cars that don't have a shot at winning



The_Truth_Detector
December 29, 2021 at 08:05:20 PM
Joined: 05/17/2008
Posts: 507
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: SprintFan19 on December 29 2021 at 07:35:44 PM

There's plenty of rich fools and plenty of poor fools.  Racing has them both

why do "fully funded" and sponsored teams fold then if sponsors only fund operations that are "in the black"

Basing it off the logic of economics, no sensible sponsor would put their name on one of the 1570 cars that don't have a shot at winning



First off... Thanks for an honest debate without hurling insults, that's a pretty rare thing these days and I thank you!

For most, sponsoring a car is not about an ROI, it's mainly a great tax write off through advertising and depreciation of assets. For the most part, they have to show a profit in 5 years.




The_Truth_Detector
December 29, 2021 at 08:10:55 PM
Joined: 05/17/2008
Posts: 507
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Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on December 29 2021 at 06:46:34 PM

I saw a video of the 1st few heat races today from Tulsa  the stands were bare so what value is there in advertising on one of these cars.?

 



See my post above, it's all about tax write offs. Think of it this way, how many folks here have bought anything from Beefpackers, HR Livestock or Roth Investments after seeing the #83 at a WoO race? 



SprintFan19
December 29, 2021 at 08:39:35 PM
Joined: 03/05/2012
Posts: 181
Reply

They are the minority though, there are plenty of people who frankly shouldn't be spending the money but will anyways.  For them a tax write off means little in the grand scheme of things.  It's like cheer parents, club basketball, etc.  The same type of parents throw money at their "next big thing". Most parents fall into the have and can blow it or don't have but will blow whatever I do have on it.  Then there's the 80% of us who fall into the sensible category.
 

Beefpackers has always appeared to serve three purposes.  A love of racing, a tax write off, and a penchant for firing people.

 

WRG can say they have no intention of encroaching on USAC but let's be realistic.  There are USAC drivers coming over to wing cars as evidenced lately by the All Stars.  If the money was there, you'd think the teams would stay. Non Wing appears to be contracting.  If WRG can offer a better purse, cars will follow them.  Midgets on the other hand might be a little more secure for the time being.



alum.427
December 30, 2021 at 05:33:12 AM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 1213
Reply

It's all about the almighty dollar. USAC does not pay well and it's showing with the departure of some of there top drivers.  My self, I hope the silver crown cars never go away. I just wish they would go back to the way they looked in the 70's, it defined what they were. Rounding the front body panel, hood, and taking away all the aero pcs around the cage. Yea, you betcha, one of the finest looking cars that ever raced.




DNQ
MyWebsite
December 30, 2021 at 06:16:58 AM
Joined: 08/26/2019
Posts: 106
Reply

Is it possible that these things are being driven not by economic gains but simple technological advances ??

Fact: Central Pa. used to have one track every friday (grove) 3 every saturday (Port, Lincoln, Selins) and 2 on sunday (Hagerstown and whats now Baps)   now they have one on friday 2 on saturday and everyone else pretty much trying to make ends meet.. Does that indicate a good economy? 

fact: I used to go to each of those tracks alot...  Now I watch just about every race they have and never buy a ticket.  Is that good or bad..

Fact: Steve Kinser won about 10,000 races that I never saw although I did read about them a couple days later.....  I saw every dam race that Larson won last year.. (couple several times)  never bought a ticket.

I point these things out because its possible that what you are seeing is the changing of viewing habits from in person to TV just like all the other sports went through decades ago.  Racing economics are pretty much crowd size, purse size and car count...Those three I think are the bottom line.......

   and as a side note: I agree on the talent. these smaller size race cars  are allowing 12 yr olds to learn things past generations learned in their 20's...between I racing and micro's there are probably more potential stars out there than ever before......



Murphy
December 30, 2021 at 07:26:15 AM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 2335
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: The_Truth_Detector on December 29 2021 at 08:02:40 AM

1700+ micros at the Tulsa Shootout

370+ midgets slated for the Chili Bowl

World of Outlaws thriving

All Stars thriving

Two new national series for 2022

 

Tell me again how horrible the economy is...



Can we expect to see 170 micros on their lids? Every micro race I've seen videos of seems to feature 5 laps of racing per flip.



dollansky_7_fan
December 30, 2021 at 07:48:05 AM
Joined: 08/14/2006
Posts: 267
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on December 29 2021 at 06:46:34 PM

I saw a video of the 1st few heat races today from Tulsa  the stands were bare so what value is there in advertising on one of these cars.?

 



Also have to remember its Wednesday. By end of the weekend the stands will be full.


 


dsc1600
December 30, 2021 at 08:57:25 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 3891
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: DNQ on December 30 2021 at 06:16:58 AM

Is it possible that these things are being driven not by economic gains but simple technological advances ??

Fact: Central Pa. used to have one track every friday (grove) 3 every saturday (Port, Lincoln, Selins) and 2 on sunday (Hagerstown and whats now Baps)   now they have one on friday 2 on saturday and everyone else pretty much trying to make ends meet.. Does that indicate a good economy? 

fact: I used to go to each of those tracks alot...  Now I watch just about every race they have and never buy a ticket.  Is that good or bad..

Fact: Steve Kinser won about 10,000 races that I never saw although I did read about them a couple days later.....  I saw every dam race that Larson won last year.. (couple several times)  never bought a ticket.

I point these things out because its possible that what you are seeing is the changing of viewing habits from in person to TV just like all the other sports went through decades ago.  Racing economics are pretty much crowd size, purse size and car count...Those three I think are the bottom line.......

   and as a side note: I agree on the talent. these smaller size race cars  are allowing 12 yr olds to learn things past generations learned in their 20's...between I racing and micro's there are probably more potential stars out there than ever before......



I assume you're talking 410s here, but Central PA hasn't had 3 tracks running 410s on one night for almost 30 years. 

Currently they still have 4 tracks running, just with different headline divisions. Sometimes just existing is the point. Not every track is going to thrive. 



beezr2002
December 30, 2021 at 09:13:14 AM
Joined: 04/21/2017
Posts: 824
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: The_Truth_Detector on December 29 2021 at 08:02:40 AM

1700+ micros at the Tulsa Shootout

370+ midgets slated for the Chili Bowl

World of Outlaws thriving

All Stars thriving

Two new national series for 2022

 

Tell me again how horrible the economy is...



One thing to understand is that there are about 1700 entries at the shoot out.   BUT, there are not that many cars, most cars run 2, 3, or 4 divisions. I tuned in a couple of times yesterday and saw some decent racing.



The_Truth_Detector
December 30, 2021 at 09:32:59 AM
Joined: 05/17/2008
Posts: 507
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: DNQ on December 30 2021 at 06:16:58 AM

Is it possible that these things are being driven not by economic gains but simple technological advances ??

Fact: Central Pa. used to have one track every friday (grove) 3 every saturday (Port, Lincoln, Selins) and 2 on sunday (Hagerstown and whats now Baps)   now they have one on friday 2 on saturday and everyone else pretty much trying to make ends meet.. Does that indicate a good economy? 

fact: I used to go to each of those tracks alot...  Now I watch just about every race they have and never buy a ticket.  Is that good or bad..

Fact: Steve Kinser won about 10,000 races that I never saw although I did read about them a couple days later.....  I saw every dam race that Larson won last year.. (couple several times)  never bought a ticket.

I point these things out because its possible that what you are seeing is the changing of viewing habits from in person to TV just like all the other sports went through decades ago.  Racing economics are pretty much crowd size, purse size and car count...Those three I think are the bottom line.......

   and as a side note: I agree on the talent. these smaller size race cars  are allowing 12 yr olds to learn things past generations learned in their 20's...between I racing and micro's there are probably more potential stars out there than ever before......



I get what you're saying, but that is a regional issue that PA promotors and teams have to work through, just as a national or evan a global economy has pockets where things aren't so good, it's the same with racing. But when the overall picture is looked at, things aren't that bad (economy or racing), we saw that a LOT foming out of the 2008/2009 financial crisis where different parts of the country recovered much faster than others.

I have been around this sport for nearly 60 years now and I can't recall a time when there were so may openwheeled cars out there, or this many top notch series. It really is a great time to be a race fan.




The_Truth_Detector
December 30, 2021 at 09:36:41 AM
Joined: 05/17/2008
Posts: 507
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: SprintFan19 on December 29 2021 at 08:39:35 PM

They are the minority though, there are plenty of people who frankly shouldn't be spending the money but will anyways.  For them a tax write off means little in the grand scheme of things.  It's like cheer parents, club basketball, etc.  The same type of parents throw money at their "next big thing". Most parents fall into the have and can blow it or don't have but will blow whatever I do have on it.  Then there's the 80% of us who fall into the sensible category.
 

Beefpackers has always appeared to serve three purposes.  A love of racing, a tax write off, and a penchant for firing people.

 

WRG can say they have no intention of encroaching on USAC but let's be realistic.  There are USAC drivers coming over to wing cars as evidenced lately by the All Stars.  If the money was there, you'd think the teams would stay. Non Wing appears to be contracting.  If WRG can offer a better purse, cars will follow them.  Midgets on the other hand might be a little more secure for the time being.



We agree on the WRG end game, but for now they have not scheduled on top of USAC. But I believe there will be a day when that honeymood will be over.

Bryan Clauson really opened the floodgates of USAC/winged 410 crossovers, he showed that the switch can be easily done if you have the backing. Again, simple economics. If you have a car owner who provides a well funded team, why not put the top on and make more money?



revjimk
December 30, 2021 at 12:08:51 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 6823
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on December 29 2021 at 06:46:34 PM

I saw a video of the 1st few heat races today from Tulsa  the stands were bare so what value is there in advertising on one of these cars.?

 



Micros are pretty much a hobby, I don't think anybody does it for $$$



revjimk
December 30, 2021 at 01:26:22 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 6823
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: RodinCanada on December 29 2021 at 06:46:34 PM

I saw a video of the 1st few heat races today from Tulsa  the stands were bare so what value is there in advertising on one of these cars.?

 



Local businesses get publicity at local races....




miledirtfan
December 31, 2021 at 06:57:03 AM
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 674
Reply
This message was edited on December 31, 2021 at 07:03:45 AM by miledirtfan

i believe its USAC sprints up in Wisconsin, Xtreme sprints in Pevely...  so the conflict has begun

there must be a whole heck of a lot going on behind the scenes on this deal



Shortie12
MyWebsite
December 31, 2021 at 07:37:20 AM
Joined: 12/11/2008
Posts: 651
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: miledirtfan on December 31 2021 at 06:57:03 AM

i believe its USAC sprints up in Wisconsin, Xtreme sprints in Pevely...  so the conflict has begun

there must be a whole heck of a lot going on behind the scenes on this deal



No matter what form of racing the fans want to see the biggest and baddest.410 sprints will outdraw 360 even though times are within a second.Winged 600 micros will turn times equal to midgets but the Chili bowl has the top drivers along with star power.It has always been that way.The word Outlaw is much more appealing than limited,





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