|
|
Topic: Knoxville Points After Wednesday Qualifying Night
|
Email this topic to a friend |
Subscribe to this Topic
| Report this Topic to Moderator
|
Page 1 of 2 of 23 replies
|
|
|
August 10, 2016 at
10:37:55 PM
|
|
Joined:
|
04/09/2011
|
Posts:
|
952
|
|
|
This message was edited on
August 10, 2016 at
10:38:10 PM by dirtracingreport
http://dirtracingreport.com/2016-knoxville-nationals-updates/
|
|
|
August 11, 2016 at
09:06:26 AM
|
|
Joined:
|
11/23/2004
|
Posts:
|
5210
|
|
|
Your points are inaccurate...you can follow the point totals LIVE by uploading our Knoxville Raceway app or referring to our race story...thanks...
If this post isn't results, stories or something c
constructive, it isn't me!
@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com
|
|
|
August 11, 2016 at
03:51:19 PM
|
|
Joined:
|
09/14/2010
|
Posts:
|
7789
|
|
|
I know this comes up every year, & obviously the people running Knoxville all these years know more than me, but...
IMHO, too much emphasis on Time Trials in point structure, it should be weighted more towards the racing
Example: among the Posse guys, Hodnett won his heat & was 5th in A-Main. Dietrich was 4th in heat & 12th in A-Main, but he's locked into Saturday Final already, based on better Time Trial. Hodnett still has to race his way in.
Dietrich lost 2 spots in the A & Hodnett was Hard Charger, passing 15 cars
Doesn't seem right
|
|
|
|
August 11, 2016 at
04:20:58 PM
|
|
Joined:
|
09/14/2010
|
Posts:
|
7789
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on August 11 2016 at 03:51:19 PM
I know this comes up every year, & obviously the people running Knoxville all these years know more than me, but...
IMHO, too much emphasis on Time Trials in point structure, it should be weighted more towards the racing
Example: among the Posse guys, Hodnett won his heat & was 5th in A-Main. Dietrich was 4th in heat & 12th in A-Main, but he's locked into Saturday Final already, based on better Time Trial. Hodnett still has to race his way in.
Dietrich lost 2 spots in the A & Hodnett was Hard Charger, passing 15 cars
Doesn't seem right
|
oops, Hodnett finished 6th, passed 14 cars
Same idea tho....
|
|
|
August 11, 2016 at
05:15:59 PM
|
|
Joined:
|
02/27/2005
|
Posts:
|
4443
|
|
|
Poor Schatzy keeps getting passed for the lead. Cryin shame. Sometimes it's just not your year.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
|
|
|
August 11, 2016 at
05:35:17 PM
|
|
Joined:
|
03/04/2007
|
Posts:
|
149
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on August 11 2016 at 03:51:19 PM
I know this comes up every year, & obviously the people running Knoxville all these years know more than me, but...
IMHO, too much emphasis on Time Trials in point structure, it should be weighted more towards the racing
Example: among the Posse guys, Hodnett won his heat & was 5th in A-Main. Dietrich was 4th in heat & 12th in A-Main, but he's locked into Saturday Final already, based on better Time Trial. Hodnett still has to race his way in.
Dietrich lost 2 spots in the A & Hodnett was Hard Charger, passing 15 cars
Doesn't seem right
|
What's not right is Hodnett timed in like he'd never raced a car in his life and got to start on the front row, let alone make the A main. If it were any normal race he would have started ROW 4 not ROW 1. In this day and age a 4 row invert is retarded especially when they dish up a one lane super highway half way up the track. freaking hell the track was that fast in the heats that My grandpa could have run the cushion and held on.
|
|
|
|
August 11, 2016 at
09:58:14 PM
|
|
Joined:
|
09/14/2010
|
Posts:
|
7789
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on August 11 2016 at 03:51:19 PM
I know this comes up every year, & obviously the people running Knoxville all these years know more than me, but...
IMHO, too much emphasis on Time Trials in point structure, it should be weighted more towards the racing
Example: among the Posse guys, Hodnett won his heat & was 5th in A-Main. Dietrich was 4th in heat & 12th in A-Main, but he's locked into Saturday Final already, based on better Time Trial. Hodnett still has to race his way in.
Dietrich lost 2 spots in the A & Hodnett was Hard Charger, passing 15 cars
Doesn't seem right
|
Wait a minute, I was completely messed up... top 16 from both nites lock into A-Main on Sat., not top 16 on EACH nite
oops...
|
|
|
August 11, 2016 at
10:01:36 PM
|
|
Joined:
|
09/14/2010
|
Posts:
|
7789
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: raeccrash778 on August 11 2016 at 05:35:17 PM
What's not right is Hodnett timed in like he'd never raced a car in his life and got to start on the front row, let alone make the A main. If it were any normal race he would have started ROW 4 not ROW 1. In this day and age a 4 row invert is retarded especially when they dish up a one lane super highway half way up the track. freaking hell the track was that fast in the heats that My grandpa could have run the cushion and held on.
|
Yea, invert of 8 makes it tough on the fast qualifiers, so I guess that makes up for the big points for qualifying...
Almost all the top qualifiers tonite had to run the B
They don't make it easy... how the hell does Schatz keep winning???
|
|
|
August 11, 2016 at
10:20:38 PM
|
|
Joined:
|
05/03/2007
|
Posts:
|
1656
|
|
|
The format does not need changed - it's fine. 3 out of the top 5 qualifiers from Wednesday had no issue making the A and 4 out of 5 from Thursday did. The chances are there to make the points. Are some guys going to have bad luck? Yep. Are some guys going to have good luck? Yep.
By and far the format rewards the guys who consistently perform throughout the night. I see some higher tier drivings making tongue in cheek jabs at the format on Twitter and have to question what they're thinking. Changing anything further is a mistake IMO. There are going to be gripes about any format (the current included) but I have to think the current is the best way to do it. You do have outliers (such as Jeff Swindell this year) but they are rare, and one of the unique and underrated things about the Nationals. Leave it alone.
|
|
|
|
August 11, 2016 at
10:29:05 PM
|
|
Joined:
|
08/23/2007
|
Posts:
|
542
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: SprintFan16 on August 11 2016 at 10:20:38 PM
The format does not need changed - it's fine. 3 out of the top 5 qualifiers from Wednesday had no issue making the A and 4 out of 5 from Thursday did. The chances are there to make the points. Are some guys going to have bad luck? Yep. Are some guys going to have good luck? Yep.
By and far the format rewards the guys who consistently perform throughout the night. I see some higher tier drivings making tongue in cheek jabs at the format on Twitter and have to question what they're thinking. Changing anything further is a mistake IMO. There are going to be gripes about any format (the current included) but I have to think the current is the best way to do it. You do have outliers (such as Jeff Swindell this year) but they are rare, and one of the unique and underrated things about the Nationals. Leave it alone.
|
Them heats were stacked tonight so that makes it tough to pick up 4 spots. I cant believe 452 points (Jeff Swindell) gets 16th.
|
|
|
August 11, 2016 at
10:33:50 PM
|
|
Joined:
|
11/23/2004
|
Posts:
|
2818
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on August 11 2016 at 05:15:59 PM
Poor Schatzy keeps getting passed for the lead. Cryin shame. Sometimes it's just not your year.
|
Are you ready to put your money where your mouth is?
Member of this message board since 1997
|
|
|
August 11, 2016 at
11:14:27 PM
|
|
Joined:
|
09/14/2010
|
Posts:
|
7789
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: SprintFan16 on August 11 2016 at 10:20:38 PM
The format does not need changed - it's fine. 3 out of the top 5 qualifiers from Wednesday had no issue making the A and 4 out of 5 from Thursday did. The chances are there to make the points. Are some guys going to have bad luck? Yep. Are some guys going to have good luck? Yep.
By and far the format rewards the guys who consistently perform throughout the night. I see some higher tier drivings making tongue in cheek jabs at the format on Twitter and have to question what they're thinking. Changing anything further is a mistake IMO. There are going to be gripes about any format (the current included) but I have to think the current is the best way to do it. You do have outliers (such as Jeff Swindell this year) but they are rare, and one of the unique and underrated things about the Nationals. Leave it alone.
|
Yea, I ponder this every year. Lots of variables, lots of cars, fairly complicated system
Like I said, people running the show know more than me....
|
|
|
|
August 12, 2016 at
07:33:55 AM
|
|
Joined:
|
06/10/2015
|
Posts:
|
2420
|
|
|
Pretty simple actually......they've run this qualifying points system on Wed and Thurs how long? And they used to invert 10 in the heats. Now take a look at the All Time Win List. See any slow pokes on that list, or a list of the greatest drivers there are and were? Leave the system alone! By the list it looks like it works!
|
|
|
August 12, 2016 at
08:53:37 AM
|
|
Joined:
|
11/27/2004
|
Posts:
|
3751
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Bill W on August 11 2016 at 09:06:26 AM
Your points are inaccurate...you can follow the point totals LIVE by uploading our Knoxville Raceway app or referring to our race story...thanks...
|
Bill W- quick question about the Friday night scenario...has any driver or team attempted / or are they even permitted to just turn up as a late entry and RACE FRIDAY without having run Wed or Thurs?
Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better
weather." Van May
|
|
|
August 12, 2016 at
08:59:42 AM
|
|
Joined:
|
03/22/2008
|
Posts:
|
2483
|
|
|
Yeah it comes up every year. Way too many points for TT's. TT points should be on equal bill with heat race points, not equal billing with A feature points IMO. Hodnett wins his heat, 20th to 6th in the feature and he's firmly locked in the... C, because of the first 2 laps racing the clock? Behind other drivers in points who did nothing but draw an early pill and put down a decent TT lap? It seems absurd to me that a tenth of a second in TT lap counts more than passing 14 cars in a feature with the cars as equal as they are nowadays. There's no perfect formula and I suppose this is one of the better ones. When you have so many good cars, it stands to reason that some of the best aren't gonna make the show. The good thing is that 4 cars will have chance to make the A from friday night. That was a great change to the format that Knoxville did a couple years ago.
A
|
|
|
|
August 12, 2016 at
09:13:29 AM
|
|
Joined:
|
05/03/2007
|
Posts:
|
1656
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on August 12 2016 at 08:59:42 AM
Yeah it comes up every year. Way too many points for TT's. TT points should be on equal bill with heat race points, not equal billing with A feature points IMO. Hodnett wins his heat, 20th to 6th in the feature and he's firmly locked in the... C, because of the first 2 laps racing the clock? Behind other drivers in points who did nothing but draw an early pill and put down a decent TT lap? It seems absurd to me that a tenth of a second in TT lap counts more than passing 14 cars in a feature with the cars as equal as they are nowadays. There's no perfect formula and I suppose this is one of the better ones. When you have so many good cars, it stands to reason that some of the best aren't gonna make the show. The good thing is that 4 cars will have chance to make the A from friday night. That was a great change to the format that Knoxville did a couple years ago.
|
When a majority of the 14 cars passed are typical B-Main cars this loses a lot of luster.
Late pill argument doesn't hold water. There is a disadvantage going out later but Sammy (30th out, 2nd quick), Brown (45th out, 7th quick) and Dollansky (41st out, 8th quick) disproved that.
And let's not exaggerate things here - a tenth in qualifying picks up two spots for Hodnett (four points).
Would everyone clamoring for a format change prefer Knoxville to go Outlaw style? That sounds really exciting - let's change the qualifying points to 100 max and decrease by two but line the heat races up straight up and watch the fastest cars drive away.
Again, there are things deserving change in this sport but the format at the Nationals is not one.
|
|
|
August 12, 2016 at
09:14:25 AM
|
|
Joined:
|
02/27/2008
|
Posts:
|
705
|
|
|
The ONLY problem with the current Wed/Thurs qualifying format is the 8 car heat race invert.
The invert should be 10.
Putting the guys that timed 41-50 on the front row of the heat races held up the field enough that more of the fast timers transferred when they used to start 9-10.
The difference in speed between the cars that time 31-40 vs 41-50 is big.
But in order to do that, somehow the number of cars qualifying on each night needs to be addressed to get the field split more evenly to get 50+ cars on each night instead of 47 on Wed and 60 on Thurs. Not sure what to do there but the car count should be able to be split more evenly than that.
Only other change I'd make to the qualifying nights is to run a few more laps for the B feature. In a stacked race like last nights B 12 laps is not very long if you're starting further back than about row 4. Going to 15 lap B's would be a good change.
|
|
|
August 12, 2016 at
09:29:10 AM
|
|
Joined:
|
04/07/2015
|
Posts:
|
17
|
|
|
Three things:
1. Go back to full invert, but make the heats 12 laps, 2. 15 lap B-Main, 3. Anything that incentivizes drivers to not give max effort during TT's (I.E., reducing the points available) is a non-starter for the Knoxville Nationals.
Reminder that races exist for our entertainment, not appeasement of driver's concerns. No reason to upset the best format in dirt racing because some traditionally fast cars struggled in TT's or didnt transfer out of a loaded heat race.
|
|
|
|
August 12, 2016 at
09:39:37 AM
|
|
Joined:
|
09/14/2010
|
Posts:
|
7789
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: HoldenCaulfield on August 12 2016 at 08:59:42 AM
Yeah it comes up every year. Way too many points for TT's. TT points should be on equal bill with heat race points, not equal billing with A feature points IMO. Hodnett wins his heat, 20th to 6th in the feature and he's firmly locked in the... C, because of the first 2 laps racing the clock? Behind other drivers in points who did nothing but draw an early pill and put down a decent TT lap? It seems absurd to me that a tenth of a second in TT lap counts more than passing 14 cars in a feature with the cars as equal as they are nowadays. There's no perfect formula and I suppose this is one of the better ones. When you have so many good cars, it stands to reason that some of the best aren't gonna make the show. The good thing is that 4 cars will have chance to make the A from friday night. That was a great change to the format that Knoxville did a couple years ago.
|
Thats pretty much how I feel, tho I admit existing system has worked well over the years
|
|
|
August 12, 2016 at
09:41:06 AM
|
|
Joined:
|
09/14/2010
|
Posts:
|
7789
|
|
|
Another question: How do they determine who qualifies Wed. & who qualifies Thursday?
|
|