Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

i was at Eldora this past weekend. They have put up a LED display of the scales viewable from the stands. Most cars I happened to notice were in the 1450 range. The 15 car rolled across at 1551. I would have thought it would be closer to minimum.  I know Donny may be a little heavier than some but not by that much. Is there ballast somewhere?  And I don't mean a bag of donuts for those red flags!

Have you actually looked at Donny in the past 3 years, he looks to be in better shape than any other driver, he cant be more than 180 pounds max! All those other guys are so worried about light weight this and TI that and shave an ounce here that sometimes it seems like the big picture is missed a lot. Im not saying they dont have light weight everything, and TI everything but a lot more emphisis is on continuing to move forward and get faster. same cars, same shocks, same engines....

Maybe the little extra weight helps traction when the track slicks off?

Certainly not on a tacky track.....Most of the other guys are fast early in a race and then fade when it gets slicked off.

That is exactly what I'm saying....Donny doesn't weigh appreciably more than most if he weighs any more at all. He looks pretty stout to me and muscle weighs more than blubber so your 180 lb max estimate I'd say is a little low. And I will assure you the 15 car has all of the newest & lightest parts. So where is the extra lbs? 

i still say it was the best race I've seen at Eldora, it was the first year of the WoO weight rule....Steve passed Sammy on the white flag lap for the apparent win only to come up a few (I heard 8) lbs lite at the scales. I'd guess steve weighed 200 back then, so how/where is the 15 that much heavier?

Steve had to be heavier than most in his day as well. I don't think weight is as big a deal as it was out to be. Certianly if the fastest car is over 100 lbs heavier than the limit, it can't mean that much.

Funny thing is, I think those LED boards were installed specifically for the big Late Model Shows.....seems there is always a weight dispute at those events....

As far as weight goes, the rulebook shows that they can add ballasts in certain locations on the car (generally the lower part of the frame between the axles).  My guess is that if you can get above the weight rule by 100#, you can lower the center of gravity and get through the corners better.  Seems like that is exactly how Schatz beats everyone when the track gets slick....

You also have consider the amount of fuel left in the car at the end of the A main. Imagine if it was dry they would be pretty close to 1500#.

Maybe weight has nothing to do with it but it seems like he's always getting good starts/restarts. Just doesn't seem logical with the extra weight.

if you have too much power, you just spin the tires.  Add some weight and you actually gain traction as opposed to spinning tires (same goes for a passenger vehicle for those that deal with snow and ice).

Thats not always true. The biggest thing when it comes to not spinning the tires is a driveable engine. If Schatz has an engine that is very very good on the power band thats where his advantage comes from. Most guys don't look at the anything but a dyno number of total HP. You have to look at the whole chart.  Alot of advantages can be gained when you tune it for a nice smooth power band. I would say that is probably his biggest advantage is on the start and restarts.

It may very well be a combination of things with the weight....how the engine performs was mentioned....but what about the weight distribution. Maybe the #15 team have figured out just where to put weight or move weight to under certain conditions. I know the balance of a sprint car can be a very determining factor. Why wouldn't the way the weight shifts on the chasis be a factor? If a car is 100 pounds heavier.....the entire 100 pounds wouldn't shift, but a percentage of it would. Maybe that's what they have figured out. If you weigh in right on the button, I would think weight shift would be more difficult to manage.

Whats the #24 weigh with driver?

  I was sitting where I could see the scale and I believe it was right around 90lbs or so lighter than Schatz.

Who let the cat out of the bag. LOL

I do think I remember it in the 1460 range.  I wonder what Rico himself weighs? I've seen him jump from the top wing into a crew members arms, and I thought, if that was a 90lb bag of cement I was catching it'd knock me down, so I'm guessing he's a good bit less than 90. 

You can't take anything away from Rico as he flat drives the wheels off of everything he's in but I maintain he has a solid advantage with his size. The weight of the driver is situated relatively higher up in the car and would have a big affect on how the car works. Add that the needed ballast can be placed where needed and it's a fairly big advantage. 

I think its time to get rid of weight rule and the tire rule . Let the teams do there own tire deals , with hope they can save money . Free these cars up some to make  for better racing . Oh , also cut costs somewhere or somehow , these WoO RULES ARE  KILLING THESE TEAMS ON COST ISSUES.

shorter arms, less travel to wheel it...he will be back for the trucks tomorrow night here...

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

Speaking of weight rule, just read Flat Out's article on Wisconsin driver Mike Reinke and his being one of three people to have the (modern era I imagine) one lap record at Knoxville.  Brooke Tatnell has owned it for past ten years and the other was Mark Kinser.  Reinke says, "Karl Kinser came to the nationals that year with a purpose",  "Karl wanted his track record back pretty badly (said Reinke longtime crewhief Scott Cowman)".  Cowman continued, "I remember him coming with no radiator, a small tank, no bumpers and an no nerf bars".  "I thought it was kind of funny that Karl went to those extremes to get it back". 

I know few WoO rules, but shouldn't you have to race with the setup you qualified with, but guess not.  Mike Reinke---another great driver I'd never heard of but (and with budget equipment) thanks to these sprint car magazines, I now know all about Reinke. 

 Lawlessness and liberalism equals Hell.  NY City, 
Detroit, Seattle, Chicago, Minnepolis, etc. We saw it. 
Burning hundreds of buildings, a thousand assaults and 
dozens of murders. Getting worser and worser.

Before the weight rule, owners/drivers were drilling holes in anything they could possibly drill a hole into to shave weight... steering wheels, seats, etc... using super lightweight/super expensive parts everywhere on the car... and yes, removing the radiator, nerf bars, etc to qualify.  If you guys remember, Joe Gaerte removed the radiator and nerf bars and set QT at the '95 Nationals in Ed Ulyate's 3DB (beautiful car, btw).  I believe Joey Saldana's car was at one point close to 1,100 lbs... maybe even less.  The weight rule was implented to not only help control the cost, but also to make sure safety wasn't compromised.  Without the weight rule, would Butlerbuilt have moved forward with the new seat technology (that added a ton of weight) ???  If the weight rule was removed today, you can guarantee that the teams that have the $$$ to make the cars lighter (KKR, TSR, LMR), would spend the $$$ to make the cars lighter.  Same goes with tire rules.  With no tire rule, the high $$$ teams would use the softest tires humanly possible to utilize every single HP from their super high $$$ engine and lock them down.  Compression limits on the out of control engine market and/or an alternate engine (like the one Schatz tried to push) are IMO the next step... but who knows how long it will take for that to happen or how many car owners we'll lose before it becomes a reality.  

Don't know the first thing about setting up a sprint car but I know when I was crewing for a late model team the weight limit was #2250 and to get the set up and weight percentages right his car ended up at #2400 and his back up car hit the scales at #2350 to get them right. The extra weight did not hurt at all as we won 20 races that season.