Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Last night at Knoxville there was a bad incident on a restart that involved over 10 cars....all being damaged. Ian Madsen turned down in to Stewart, who in turn turned down in to Brown and the melee started. That whole thing was caused starting back in turn four at the green flag. Madsen did what all of us I'm sure have seen many times on a start or restart.......he drifted way outside probably at least 4 car widths away from the pole position driver before the green flag was thrown. My question is this, why is that tactic allowed? It creates another question about starts. Starts are also suppose to be nose to tail, so why then wasn't Stewart in line with Madsen up high? Both rules can't co exist if both of them aren't enforced, and it has appeared over the years that niether are stricty adhered to. I think this needs to be addressed in drivers meetings if it isn't already. I have never been at a drivers meeting, so maybe these things are, but if so, they aren't being enforced with regularity. If the side by side rule is the rule, then side by side needs to be defined in each drivers meeting, along with the definition of nose to tail. I have seen yellows thrown on starts and restarts when cars deeper in the pack have done the same thing Madsen did, drift way out even though they hadn't advanced any spots (though most had). For me the bottom line should be that side by side means within a certain proximity. At least then the flagman only has to be concerned with the nose to tail. Drifting way out to the cushion on a start of any kind should mean the tail of the field, not a one row penalty. That will put a stop to that. And too, about last night, Stewart must not have thought drifting way up to the cushion was an advantage, because he did stay side by side and was more than making distance on Madsen....hence the big crash. Thoughts?

I watched dirtvision last night and saw several replays. Was just a total boneheaded move by Madsen. You just cant do that in front of the field. 

Having watched the replay on facebook, what I saw Ian Madsen go from an outside line trying to get to the bottom but misjudged the down move or backward side job. And hit Stewart who then slowed was run over by brown. Stewart went up the track into all the other cars into the big pile on top in turn one.

As far as restarts with the outlaws the leader takes off first, or must take off first, then second on back in the double file line up. The outside car can move up high just as long as they are beside the bottom car...

I've seen Madsen blamed a lot for this incident, but had Stewart been following directly behind Ian up until the flagstand, would this whole incident been avoided?

Not trying to blame Stewart either, just pointing out something I thought to myself after watching it around 10 times

thanks for the pertinent post.  it appears that this start or restart issue is nationwide.  we have the same issue here in chico with a "two cone start."  supposidly the pole setter can start anywhere within these two cones.  BUNK, they seem to make up the rules as they go.  to me the front of the pack should be tight but as far as the rule "nose to tail" rule for the entire start front to rear.....i'm just not there.

we see plenty of to the "highsiding" on the start, pushin the cushion for an advantage?

it is a huge issue, changes coming, i would like to say yes but???

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

Actually Stewart did a soft rollover and remained at the bottom of the track. Brown then slid sideways up the track and gathered the oncoming cars. Nothing Brown could do about it.

REALLY....................Why would Stewart follow Madsen, Madsen started on the outside pole.    

You break out you go to tail. Problem solved. Stay in line on initial start & all restarts period.  Same as jumping if you ask me.

If the guy behind you gets beside you after you break out he could be called for jumping because he passed before the line when this is just reflex anticipating when the front row is going to go.

 Stewart did start right behind Madsen on the outside of Brown, so it's a mtter of whether or not nose to tail is called for.....the replay shows from the beginning in turn 4 that Stewart and the three cars behind him stayed in a close side by side and nose to tail formation with the inside row, and only the next couple drivers behind them were following in Madsen's line. Regardless....Madsen tried going from being outside nearly to the wall, to diving down to the inside right behind the leader....it was his stupid move that caused it all. I have no idea what is discussed and what the proper procedure is for side by side and/or nose to tail on starts and that's why I initially asked. After the start, yes I understand it becomes racing for track position. A chaotic start is usually what leads to chaos on the front stretch.

Who got called for that this wreck? I watched the replay and see Madsen started second on the next restart.  Just curious as who got the call for wrecking darn near half the field.

Not sure what you mean by "called for" this wreck?  If you're talking about penalizing somone for "causing the wreck", don't think that happens with any professional sprint car organization in the United States.  (Even WSS in Australia has gotten rid of "primary cause".)   Unless it's intentional (which I don't think anyone believes is the case), there's no penalty.