Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Well, it is about Nationals time....  Maybe someone needs to dust off that thread from a couple of years ago when those firefighters made an ass out of themselves at Knoxville.  Then some could talk about how "bad" the fans are at Knoxville.  

Your full of shit. Half of that shit didnt happen. The bathrooms are not outdated compared to 90% of the tracks in the world. The food is over priced but that doesnt matter its a fuckin racetrack. Bring your own shit. The racing was good. We have better fsns. More fans and better top funded teams. Kasey kahne holds races in pa for a reason. Tony stewart holds races in pa for a reason. The national open is at wg for a reason. Wg pays more for the big events for a reason. Go back to ohio and watch a 60 car field where 50 of those cars will never win a race. Car counts dont matter. Quality does. Ask tony stewart kasey kahne donny schatz or any woo ddriver where the best racing is in the country and every single one of them will say pa. Like I said before,  go back to ohio. And dont come back around cause u have no idea what your talking about.

I think so.  All I know is that thread was entertaining as hell.

Wow.... after reading all these posts. I have determined one thing about people bashing pa, racing, and there expierences. Morons!!! You people are freaking idiots. Stay home. We dont need you coming here and telling us HOW it is.. lol.. 

Thank you sir for finally posting something intelligent. Ohh boyy the track has a tin fence around it.........Who the hell gives a f@ck! Lol. Are looking at a fence or are you watching the d@mn race. Jesus Christ people are trying that desperately to find something to criticize Pennsylvania for? The PA haters have nothing else to criticize us for so they have to resort to this? How astonishingly pathetic. Almost as pathetic as Nelligan.......ALMOST. I've have been to dirt tracks all over the country too and am always proud to come home to The sprint car Capital of the world. Man buddy your that upset because people were cheering for the Pennsylvania POSSE in Pennsylvania, wow what a shock that must be LOL. You ever go to a Packers-Lions game, steelers-ravens game, yankees-red Sox, penn state-ohio state. Are you new here? It's called sports, there are rivalries in sports. Maybe you could just try being grateful that you got to see the greatest in the world, minus the WoO circus clowns of course. If your experience at the grove was that bad than you don't need to come back. It is a free country sir. For that matter the WoO or mspn doesn't need to come back. This whole thread is a waste of space. The only thing I can figure is its just pure jealousy. Folks like Mike Nelligan are sooo painfully jealous of PENNSYLVANIA that they have to resort to absurd stupid stuff like this or just flat out make up crap.

Thank you sir for finally posting something intelligent. Ohh boyy the track has a tin fence around it.........Who the hell gives a f@ck! Lol. Are looking at a fence or are you watching the d@mn race. Jesus Christ people are trying that desperately to find something to criticize Pennsylvania for? The PA haters have nothing else to criticize us for so they have to resort to this? How astonishingly pathetic. Almost as pathetic as Nelligan.......ALMOST. I've have been to dirt tracks all over the country too and am always proud to come home to The sprint car Capital of the world. Man buddy your that upset because people were cheering for the Pennsylvania POSSE in Pennsylvania, wow what a shock that must be LOL. You ever go to a Packers-Lions game, steelers-ravens game, yankees-red Sox, penn state-ohio state. Are you new here? It's called sports, there are rivalries in sports. Maybe you could just try being grateful that you got to see the greatest in the world, minus the WoO circus clowns of course. If your experience at the grove was that bad than you don't need to come back. It is a free country sir. For that matter the WoO or mspn doesn't need to come back. This whole thread is a waste of space. The only thing I can figure is its just pure jealousy. Folks like Mike Nelligan are sooo painfully jealous of PENNSYLVANIA that they have to resort to absurd stupid stuff like this or just flat out make up crap.

Wow, I haven't been on hoseheads in ages, but this thread caught my attention.  I've lived in PA all my life, and for quite a few years I traveled two and a half hours to the grove every other week.  I love the place, and I can't wait till my next visit, I haven't been there in three or four years.  For the poster that said the place is Hillbilly as F^%*, you should see some of the tracks in other parts of the state.  Compared to some of the tracks in other areas, the grove is a crown jewel.  The appeal that the grove has to me, is the history of the place, and the fact that the best in the state are there every friday night.  I've enjoyed every night I was ever there, and I've never seen a bad race there, they were all good, some were just better than others.  I've been to almost every track in PA and the atmosphere at the Grove for an outlaw show is amazing, but there is also a whole other breed of fan there for outlaw shows too, and yes there are some that can turn a great night into a bad experience.  Another poster described a night that Kreitz beat Kinser, and that is one of my all time favorite memories from the grove, if there was roof over the track, it would have been blown off when Kreitz took the lead that night!  The crowd was so loud, I swear they were drowning out the sounds of the cars!  I was a Hodnett fan before he was Posse, and proudly wore my 8tw shirt many times at the track, and the only time I ever heard anything about wearing it was during outlaw shows. 

Anyway, there are fans that can make a great night, miserable at every track.  You can't judge an entire fan base on the actions of a few.  I spent a night at Hesston for a late model special and was surrounded by a group of over intoxicated, over vocal, and under intelligent fans of a certain driver.  By the time the night was over, which included a very good late model feature, I couldn't wait to get out of there and swore I would never go back.  Found out later that the group we were sitting near weren't regulars unless it was a special show, and they always acted like that.  I guess that explains why those good seats were empty when we got there LOL! 

 You all come to Indiana to the races and meet some really nice people. I never witness any obnoxious behavior or people screaming about someone's shirt. Hey, there might be something that happens in a parking lot or wherever but I haven't heard or read about anything like that happening. Myself and a lot of people drink a few beers but getting commode-huggin' drunk and people being nasty doesn't happen. Could be you all just live too close to Washington D.C. and that would be hard for me to stomach, too, if I lived  fairly close to that sea of rot.

I am by no means an elegant writer, or much of a story teller. But, I wanted to share my experience going to both nights of the Summer Nationals at Williams Grove this past weekend.

            I think a little bit of background information will help explain why I wanted to write this story. Like everyone else on this forum, I love sprint car racing. I have been going to races as long as I can remember. The biggest reason I wanted to visit Williams Grove is that my family and I have a personal connection to the track. My grandfather, Gays Biro, raced there during his career. Midgets, Sprint cars, even the occasional Dirt Champ car ride. He never won a race there, as far as I know. (cue Posse superiority, more on that later). What makes the connection personal is that he died there. 1982 he was a participant in the Williams Grove Old Timers. My grandfather was there with my grandmother and his two antique cars, a 1930’s homemade sprint car, and a 1947 Kurtis Offy midget. Long story short, a radius rod bolt broke on the midget, resulting in the now free rod impaling into the track in front of the left rear wheel, and flipping the car over. As most of you know, those cars lack roll cages, 5 point seat belts and other “modern” safety features. He insisted on driving a car like he raced, no “sissy” roll cage or hoops. He passed away at Holy Spirit Hospital shortly after arrival.

            With that being said, I don’t view myself as an “outlaw” fan, or a “posse” fan. I just love sprint cars. My friend Dan has never been to a race at the Grove, so I invited him to go, and share in the costs from traveling from the Akron Ohio area. The drive across the turnpike was uneventful, arriving at our hotel and relaxing for a little while before going to the track. Upon arriving to the Grove, I think what my buddy said was “this place is hillbilly as Fu&%”. I kind of bit my tongue. I knew than to judge the place based on what kind of walls are used to keep people from sneaking in. (but, seriously, those plain steel walls make it look like a combination junkyard/football stadium). We parked, paid for our pit passes outside of turn one, and walked inside. First looking at the track, well, it looks like a dirt track. It seemed like the straights went on forever and the turns seemed way too tight and short. In all, my first impression was one of both sadness and joy. I was happy that I was able to see a race here, and sad that both my grandfather and father were not here to enjoy it with me.

            We walked around, took pictures, and climbed the bridge up and down a few times, pretty much taking the place in. We sat in the bleachers closest to turn 4, as high up as we could. Now, for the racing. I’ve been to enough sprint car races to know that heat races seldom involve a great deal of passing or action. Much less on a bigger track. So, with that being said the heat races were pretty boring. It was after the heat races were over I began to notice something. I said I’m from the Akron Ohio area. I did not, prior to Friday’s races, own any posse racing shirts. So, I wore a Paul McMahan shirt. I didn’t think much of this, racing is racing right? Surely no one will care I don’t have a Stevie Smith, Fred Rahmer, Lynn Paxton, Smokey Snellbaker shirt on right? I was wrong. Oh so Wrong. It started after the dash was over. We were walking in the infield, looking at stuff to buy. Some kids were throwing a football, it landed near me. I threw it to the one young lady brave enough to play with a group of little boys. The closest little boy, MAYBE age 10, said “hey! You’re a god damn outlaw fan”. I think I laughed. I’m not sure; I was kind of blown away by the fact that a kid said that. Well, anyway, we moved on walking back to our seats. It was at this point that about every 5^th person I walked by made some kind of comment to me. Some were just the simple “POSSE RULES!”. Some I probably shouldn’t type on here. I’m guessing it was the never ending supply of booze that fueled this “us against the world” mindset. I guess you can say I was shocked. I have never once seen even the most diehard fans at Attica or Fremont or Eldora or Sharon or MERCER say these things. But hey, I guess they just love their locals. Anyway, Greg Hodnett flips, they blame….yup….Paul McMahan. I might as well have been wearing an Obama shirt in the stands. Danny Dietrich wins in an honestly good entertaining race. I do enjoy seeing locals win big races, especially if they pass, and run away from,. Donny Schatz. After the races, we go into the pits. I have an idea, I need some Camo, a posse shirt. What better than the guy who just won? Besides, I didn’t like the Stevie Smith shirts that were for sale. We went to Danny’s trailer, and bought a shift. After which, I said congrats to Danny and his crew. No one thanked me. No one thanked me for buying a shirt. Walking back to the car, I was taunted by at least a dozen people, the highlight of which was a woman screaming in my face “ITS ALL ABOUT THE POSSE!!!!”. I didn’t know if she was referring to the group of central PA sprint car drivers, or in her PBR fuel rage, telling me how I should be all about her mispronounced girl parts. Either way I was uncomfortable.

            Anyway, Saturday we went to the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, one of the main reasons for this trip. Long story short, my grandfather has a few pictures and his helmet that he was wearing the day he died on display. The staff at the Museum was by far the kindest and most helpful people I encountered this entire weekend. They even allowed me to take a picture holding the helmet. Stopping there truly made the trip worth it. Saturday I was ready, Danny Dietrich shirt on, I was a local now. No one knew that it a posse driver didn’t win I wasn’t going to go burn down a barn or whatever. In my opinion, the racing Saturday was not that entertaining. I never made it to beer hill. If the “regular” fans were that obnoxious I think watching from that part of the track would have been a mistake. To be honest, I left a little disappointed. The racing wasn’t anything to write about (see what I did there?). The crowd detracted from having a good time. The bathrooms were old and outdated. The food is massively overpriced. The grandstands need updated, and frankly having almost half of the seating reserved, is ridiculous. I will say unlike some Ohio tracks it wasn’t so dusty that you can’t see the race. I guess what I asking for here, is what do the so called die hard posse fans bragging about? Yes, you have a deep, talented well funded group of drivers and teams that can beat the best of the best in your own back yard. But, you are far from having the best track, or tracks (Lincoln and Port Royal are next on the list to visit) in the country. I hate to break it to you; Eldora is much, much, much nicer track. It was nicer long before Tony Stewart owned it. In closing, I just wanted to write this story on my experience at the grove. Will I go back? Hell yes. I did have fun. But, it seems that half of the comments on here are debates on what makes central PA the center of our sprint car universe. I wanted to give a look through SOBER, unbiased eyes and ears. Any comments are welcome. Just keep it clean, I heard enough foul language this past weekend. Thanks for reading.  

Lets not forget this is a state where Philly fans boo their stars as soon as they make one mistake...

& Sixer fans beat up Santa Claus...

In 1984 I was fortunate to see 2 NBA playoff games, Sixers vs. Nets, one in Joisey & one at the Spectrum. In Joisey, people would casually ask "So who are you rooting for?" In Philly I saw 6 fights...

Not sure about Pittsburgh  fans, I'm sure they're hardcore, maybe not as nasty?

Or you are simply a poster child for the pussification of America

The Top Five Fights in NASCAR History

The only time I ever saw a fan carrying a gun on his hip was last year at Kokomo Smackdown, surprised they let him in the gate. But he didn't do anything.

Other than that the fans were very nice, especially by Day 3, when they got used to the non-Hoosier in their midst & were curious who I was.....

I had decided to stay out of this until someone had to bring up that cesspool in the Southeast corner of the state. I can asure the people of central Pa. are head and shoulders above what lives in that place. You can call us Hillbillies if you want but we  never be as low as Philly.

One of the funniest things that I have seen in this whole thread is the original poster's quote of his friend's assessment of the place and then being horrified when the locals used the same language.