Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Because you got the same exact thing years ago when there was an invert & even further back than that. There has even been statistical proof that there is not any less passing in the heats starting straight up versus the invert. I think Johnny Gibson even showed last year that the numbers between the two were seperated by .2 of a position. Its just psycologically people think that because there is an invert that the racing is better when in reality it is basically the same this day and age. If you look at qualifying times the whole field is not off by much so whoever starts upfront has a significant track position advantage. When I watched sprint car racing on TNN as a kid it seemed like always the winner would come from the front row. The dvds that I have bought from back in the day a majority of the races were won from the front row. We think that because winners are coming from the front row now its because of the format when its not, its just that is how racing is and how by and large how it always has been. On the local level sure there probably were more races where drivers did advance positions but most likely because of the huge seperation in equipment. When the top 5 drivers qualify a half second slower and are a half second slower than the guy starting 6th, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that as long as he minds his P's & Q's he is going to get around those guys in a matter of laps. The faster car is just starting in glorified lapped traffic at that point. If you take 8guys who are seperated by .1sec and give them time to work and adjust on their cars then you will actually see competitive battles for position.

Fact- The World of Outlaws sanction the Knoxville Nationals

Fact- The World of Outlaws sanction the Kings Royal

Fact- Both of these races use an inversion.

Therefore, the World of Outlaws do use an inversion at some of their races. 

However, the point I was trying to make, originally, had nothing to do with the World of Outlaws sanctioning these races or not. The biggest and the second biggest race of the year use an inversion. Is this a coincidence? I don’t think so. I think the inversion is a very big part of the reason that they are the biggest races in sprintcars. The promoters obviously think so too or they would change it. 

Excellent information. I have no stats but it seems like races 20 years were much more entertaining even if somebody did win from the front. There was still passing and everyone watched the guy starting sixth or eighth to see how far up they could get. I think what your information tells us is that the cars are too easy to drive. Nearly any decent driver with a decent car can win a heat from the front in clean air. So what does that tell us? Too much traction maybe? I don't have the answers but I do get a "vote" with where i choose to spend my racing budget. 

I don't know if it is that they are too easy to drive or if it is traction. The thing that always think about is an interview on Winged Nation I believe it was Brad Doty back in 2013-2014. They were discussing how many front row WoO and All Star winners there were at that time, keeping in ming there was an invert of 16 from qualifying for the Outlaws, and I think the All Stars did 24 (a little different in how the dash was determined). He said back in his day in a 24 car field you had passing but a lot of the cars in the field had the equivilant of a 305 engine today. Today they are all 410s.

I have always been someone that watches the battle of a position and how close drivers are on the track. To me, since the Outlaws changed it to straight up lineups the closeness and competition for position has been closer. But others feel that the invert creates more passing or better racing and I am not sure that is exactly the case. I have collected hundreds of dvds over the years & watch races on youtube from the early days. When I go back and watch them more often than not the winner comes from the front row. I just watched the 2018 Nationals Thursday Qualifying night. I think each winner came from the front row in the heats but the big battles were for transfer positions. I looked at the stats for the Chili Bowl this year and a lot of the winners there were from the front row.

I think it is a psycological thing where people now see front row winners and automatically assume that its because of a heads up from qualifying lineup. When you look at stats and see the winner came from 1st or 2nd and no one moved up more than 2 spots then one assumes that the race wasnt that good. But if you actually watch it and see that drivers were side by side a majority of the race, or some sliders/crossovers were used you know it was a good race. Heat race & Feature wins from the front are nothing new and neither is the complaining about it. No matter what format is used there will be complaining, so I would much rather it be fair for the guys who are doing it for a living and not a gimmick.