Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Do you really think people are sandbagging these days? Go look at some the qualifying times from the past year, sometimes all that separates 1st from 20th is 0.1 seconds. I doubt there are very many drivers out there who can sandbag well enough to start on the front row everytime.

In the end , isn't racing a contest to see who has the fastest car / driver combination? Why penalize somebody for having that exact combo?

The absurd Kings Royal format absolutely causes drivers to sandbag. 

Agreed. But I dont think it happens much elsewhere tho. Kings Royal needs to qualify then line up heat races directly off qualifying times. Then run a 2nd set of heats with a complete field invert of the 1st set of heat race lineups. Then lineup the mains based off best combined heat race finishes. Tie-breakers would default back to qualifying time. I'd love to hear a proposal that would be more fair than that.

call me crazy but i love the kings royal format, that shit is crazy 

Thats just dumb...

Sometimes, believe it or not, the fastest car deserves to win a race, and shouldn't have to drive thru a GD minefield to do it. 

Nobody can tell you that. They will continue to argue and debate about what is most fair for the drivers. I attend races that are most fair to me. You know, ones where there is passing and competition in the preliminary events. 

Track conditions and the cars themselves have a good deal more to do with passing in the heats than format does. 

I think he was loosley quoting Tony Stewart from a post Nascar race interview when Smoke said something close to , "if you want passing go to the freeway, if you want racing go to the raceway."

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

Pretty much just quoting the owner of the ASCoC.

Because you got the same exact thing years ago when there was an invert & even further back than that. There has even been statistical proof that there is not any less passing in the heats starting straight up versus the invert. I think Johnny Gibson even showed last year that the numbers between the two were seperated by .2 of a position. Its just psycologically people think that because there is an invert that the racing is better when in reality it is basically the same this day and age. If you look at qualifying times the whole field is not off by much so whoever starts upfront has a significant track position advantage. When I watched sprint car racing on TNN as a kid it seemed like always the winner would come from the front row. The dvds that I have bought from back in the day a majority of the races were won from the front row. We think that because winners are coming from the front row now its because of the format when its not, its just that is how racing is and how by and large how it always has been. On the local level sure there probably were more races where drivers did advance positions but most likely because of the huge seperation in equipment. When the top 5 drivers qualify a half second slower and are a half second slower than the guy starting 6th, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that as long as he minds his P's & Q's he is going to get around those guys in a matter of laps. The faster car is just starting in glorified lapped traffic at that point. If you take 8guys who are seperated by .1sec and give them time to work and adjust on their cars then you will actually see competitive battles for position.

Stop using logic before someone's feelings get hurt.

...But this is 100% spot on.

The biggest sprint car race in the world uses an inversion. The second biggest sprint car race in the world uses an inversion. Coincidence??

The biggest sanctioning body for sprint car racing doesn't use an inversion and just had one the most historical seasons we'll ever witness.

Say what? The biggest sanctioning body in sprint car racing, doesn’t sanction the two biggest races in sprint car racing? They must have made a mistake on the schedule then because it says they do. 

The biggest sprint car race in the world uses inversions on qualifying nights where the winner on those qualifying nights come from the front row or front 2 rows more often than not. The Main feature is not inverted after all of the points are scored. Kings Royal is a little different but I have seen many races where the winner has come from the front row as well. 2013 Brad Sweet won it for the first time, won from 2nd, lead every lap, and was one of the best races I saw as he fended of challenges from Schatz & Wimmer. It is more common for winners to come from the front row or front couple of rows in races than most people think. People just see the perception of no invert, front row winner, then suddenly think it is new. Its not. If you look at the intervals between drivers & the actual battle for position it is closer now than it had been in sometime since the fast cars are racing each other and not having to be stuck in what will become lapped traffic by the end of the feature.

To add some real numbers to the discussion of the updated All Star format I reviewed their results from 2019 and applied the new dash format for 2020.  I probably messed up a few times here and there, but these are the numbers I came up with.

There were 43 All Star events that used the dash format in 2019, and if they had used the 2020 format an average of 79% of the dash starters over the course of the season would have been the same as with the 2019 format.  For specific events, 2 had a low of 63% commonality (Stateline on 6/8 and Plymouth on 8/17 - 5 of 8 common) and 2 had a high of 92% commonality (Wayne County on 6/22 and Eldora on 9/28 - 11 of 12 common).  Draw your own conclusions.  I didn't dig down really deep to see how many 2nd place finishers would not have qualified for the 2020 dashes, but that can be done.

Signature here.

Since 2012 the WoO name has been associated with the race, but the event is still operated by Knoxville Raceway officials.

Fact- The World of Outlaws sanction the Knoxville Nationals

Fact- The World of Outlaws sanction the Kings Royal

Fact- Both of these races use an inversion.

Therefore, the World of Outlaws do use an inversion at some of their races. 

However, the point I was trying to make, originally, had nothing to do with the World of Outlaws sanctioning these races or not. The biggest and the second biggest race of the year use an inversion. Is this a coincidence? I don’t think so. I think the inversion is a very big part of the reason that they are the biggest races in sprintcars. The promoters obviously think so too or they would change it.