Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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You act as though the difference between 1st and 12th in time trials is 2 seconds. At Volusia, the largest difference between 1st and 12th was .32 seconds, the smallest was .25 seconds over the 3 nights.

You put the guy who ran 13.167 seconds in time in front with clean air and a open track, of course he's going to win over the guy who times at 12.913. The difference is miniscule. That's why the change was made. Why give someone a huge advantage who didn't earn it?

I concur!

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I beleive the new format will mean alot less different winners this year and will hurt all of the outlaw teams except thr 9,49,83,15,and 5.  THIS WILL ALSO HURT THE LOCAL GUYS IN PA. and Cal that were good enough to win from the pole of a heat but only maybe a few will time in the top eight unless they get out early and the track slows down.

First trip to Florida in many years if we go again it will be for the 360 show at Easrt Bay 30 cars was a dissapointing amount of cars need to have one large paying race or up the payout for all the races to draw more cars.

Having the All Stars for two nights helps the count ,but makes it seem like the same show with a slightly different format.

Maybe having 360s on Monday and Tuesday intead of practice would bring more guys down and less would go home after Bubba.   

So after 3 nights, Hodnett is 2nd in points and Wolfe has a 2nd place finish. How does this format hurt the local guys in PA again?

Hodnett and Wolfe will consistantly time fast but Stevie Smith is about the only other Pa. car that always times good.

I was not only refering to Pa. but other places where guys took advantage of timeing into a front row spot and winning a heat to get in the dash, Cal,Ohio,and the midwest.

Which format do you think will give you more different winners?

Yes ,understand that. But I like the older format of qualifying for the dash. Then combine it with the new way of starting the A main heads up from the heat finishes behind the dash cars. I just think the older format of taking the heat winners and the top 4 time trialers that qualify is a bit better because it takes "some" of the emphasis away from the time trial pill draw order.

I'm trying to think of ways that teams,fans or promoters wouldn't like it. I could be very wrong since I'm just a normal fan but seems like it would work. One Argument I've heard is " fans can't keep track of it"  As a normal fan, I know if my guy starts 5th and gets 2nd,he's in good shape... Starts on pole and gets 3rd..probably not so good. Most of the fans that wouldn't be able to follow would be the more casual fan who dont care anyway.they just want good racing.  For me it would add something to keep add up while support classes run. Again, would like to know downsides from others

The only downside I've heard when this was suggested before was that double heats would mess up the track. I don't understand track prep well enough to comment on that....

I like the idea. No TT, random draw for heats, run heats, total invert, run 'em back, A-Main based on heat finish & passing points

But the original post asked for professional opinions, & I'm just a lowly fan...... ;)

And Hodnett, Stevie and Danny Dietrich were the Pa drivers who beat the Outlaws last year. The cream always rises to the top. This format isn't gonna do jack shit to hurt the Central PA drivers chances at beating the Outlaws. Our guys consistently time well against them and it isn't just Hodnett, Stevie & Wolfe either. Maybe at one time before we ran as many time trial shows it would've but not now. Our locals get plenty of practice with their time trial set ups at The Grove, Lincoln and Port and the past few years it has really shown in how well our guys do against them. I look for things to continue to be much the same as they've been.

I personally think that people put far too much stock in "understanding" what's going on at a sprint car race when it comes to formats and line up procedures. Granted, it can't be too complex or even the die hards will hate it but I think that any fan...whether it be first time, casual or die hard isn't thinking about formats when they're seeing the best racing on earth like only sprint cars can privide and are genuinely entertained. I'm as good as anyone at understanding formats but when I see Dietrich and Montieth trading sliders at Lincoln, I'm usually not thinking too much about it. I think anyone with an average IQ can follow along well enough with a system like the one you proposed and a decent announcer (and as far as announcers are concerned, the WoO have one of the best in all of sports working for them) should be able to more than help to fill in the blanks and at least give people a half assed idea of what's at stake and when. As far as laps on the track, getting rid of time trials and the dash saves some laps on it and I just don't see track conditions being an issue more than they already are. A shitty track is just that and it's gonna rubber up regardless. Of course one other angle, with the time saved (and I do think your format would save a lot of time) that should allow for a nice little intermission therefore, time to do some track prep if needed and the fans could still get out at a decent hour. I really would love to see the WoO try this as well as here in PA.

As the announcer for the World of Oultaws Craftsman Sprint Car Series, I obviously have a stake in this discussion, but I'm posting here as a race fan first.  I LOVE the format--in fact, I've been trying to convince the series officials to run this format for years, and it has nothing to do with benefiting "our" teams, but actually trying to improve the heat races.

In the "old" format (3 heat program), a driver could be quick time, LOSE two positions in his heat, and still start on the pole of the dash.  And a driver who timed 24th could start 8th in his heat, pass 6 cars, finish second, and still start 24th in the A-main.   With the new format, the quick time driver has to at least hold his position to start on the pole of the initial dash line-up, and the driver who times 24th and passes 6 cars is in the dash (and starts 7th in the A if he only passes 5 cars).  It also means the end of drivers "coasting" thru a heat (knowing their starting position in the dash or the A-main is secured by just a top 6 finish in a 3 heat program or a top 5 finish in a 4 heat program). 

Granted, most nights heat race quality is more a factor of track condition than anything, and clean air is a huge advantage no matter WHO starts in front, but at least with this format there's now REASON to try to race harder in the heats.

For those that suggest a two heat format: I've seen this in Australia quite a bit the past few years, and I don't like it at all.  It adds more time to the program, and a point system is VERY difficult to keep track of. (The ability to keep track of what's going on is HUGE in my opinion--and that comes from my conversations with fans.)

Also--something I haven't seen mentioned in any comments about multiple heats:  more cost for the teams.  It's basically another main event on an engine every 3 or 4 races.  (The cost of multiple heats is something I hear about A LOT from drivers in Australia.)  

In short, I think that this format is the best possible format (none are perfect) for a nationally touring series like the World of Outlaws Craftsman Sprint Car Series, and I believe over the course of the year will significantly improve the heat racing (which is the intent).  

if history is any guide...the only WoO driver to benefit from this format on Posse Soil will be Donny Schatz!

although, blocking in the heat race might benefit the 9 car...

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

The new format puts even more emphasis on the pill draw.  Most tracks will fall off considerably over a 35 car time trial field.  The rich will always get richer, spend more money to have the best motor possible and skate through the night without passing a car.  If they are going to run this format i would like to see the 8 pill brought back into consideration.  I would surely love to see them put all numvber 1 through 8 into the bucket.  There are many formats that can be ran, atleast the All Stars are tinkering around and trying to find the best option.  Kudos to them

The NSL format of collecting points in qualifying and heat races is/was the best in sprint car racing. Top 8 in points go to the dash and you can either draw or do some sort of invert. 

If you want to take it a step further and make the heats worth more then you can line-up spots 9-20 with the total points earned instead of reverting back to qualifying times. And then B Main cars start 21-24. 

It may be hard for fans to keep track of the points and the upcoming lineups, but with social media most fans could get on Twitter and find out the lineup there before the start of the A. 

BIG J

"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity."

Not a big fan of the format, the biggest reason was having to guess the line up for the A Main. I like knowing what the line up is immediately.

I like the idea of A-Main being lined up by heat finish.

I'm not so crazy about lining up heats straight up by TT. Sounds like it will be follow the leader

But you're the expert....

If you expect, and want cars to pass more in the heats then give them a track that they can pass on, not some wet tackey track that produce times greater in the heats than what they were in TT. If the track is tackey and fast it's just another follow the leader and the first 8 timers will always run off with the heats.Wanting to see passing and seeing it is dependent on the condition of the track more than a drivers desire to pass cars.

I like your choice, of who would benifit at the grove from the new Qualifying order but how did you come to that conclusion?

I made it up after watching many outlaws salting away provisionals for the Posse Swing over a few decades...

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

over the years...you saw the same thing - didn't you RW?

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May