Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

thinking ............................ from this fan's view the WOO reinvents the square wheel ............................... from WOO view we must attract teams to tour with us all year ................................. I have always enjoyed All-Stars shows over WOO

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Sweet has started on the front row of every race he's been in except the dash the first night where he started 3rd and finished 2nd.  He's won 2 features and passed a total of 1 car all night in each one.  He finished 2nd in the 3rd feature after passing a total of 2 cars all night.  So that's 2 wins and 1 second with a grand total of 4 positions advanced.  I'd say he's going to really like this new format.  He and Pittman are the only cars to qualify in the top 5 every night so far.  KKR obviously has their motor program looking good.  The WoO has made it even harder to compete with the big money teams.  They always have top notch motors which means everything in qualifying.  Previously you could get on a front row and make the dash occasionally without timing in the top 6 or 8.   That's going to be nearly impossible now.  

I understand why the WoO want this format and that is to take care of their teams. As far as being a fan, it sucks. Yes the heats now days suck no matter what, but to put that much importance into qualifying is not good for entertainment. If I'm going to a race I try to time it right and show up after time trials because they are sooooooo boring. Why put that much into time trials when all they have to do is go hammer down for a couple laps without the worry of running into another car to pass. I would rather see Mr. WoO driver race like it means something everytime hes on the track. That's why we pay more money to see these guys race, because they are the best!

It's so simple, either lineup the A Main Features based on last 3 race results or line them Up on points with 1st starting 15th or 20th based on car counts. Lining heat races up by fastest time sure promotes passing and will just hurt the car counts as the little guys will always be starting at the back . God just draw a pill as they enter the race track and line the heat races up that way, PROMOTE passing in all the woo nightly races :) I 4 1 would LOVE 2 c the dash race disappear FOREVER !!!!! If Woo keeps Catering to the high dollar teams the low dollar teams will stop coming & without the low dollar teams, the high dollar teams will just disappear too 

So its the World of Front Row, format or not, put your foot in it cause it is what it is

Its not our series its WRG so why fight it

"Its not our series"? Well of course the fans don't own it, but our $$$ keeps it afloat, & we can support it or not....

One question: Are you sure this is the year long format? Maybe its just for Volusia races? I saw it on their website, but no mention of major change on WoO website....

During the broadcast at Volusia when they explained the format change they indicated it would stay in place as long as the teams and drivers continue to support it. I also believe they said the teams and drivers were involved in discussions regarding the change and they were in favor of it from the beginning. That being said, it might very well be here to stay. Unless I heard it wrong. Last year with the old format, there were a total of 14 "invaders" that won WoO A Mains. I doubt this format will be conducive to that kind of number this year, should it stay in place. Regardless, the old way wasn't getting it done either from a fans perspective and the quality of racing from the Heats, to the Dash and including the A Main. 

personally not a fan of straight up starts, but understand that the owners and drivers following the series like it that way (just like every other form of motorsport in the world now).

To me, if the issue was lack of passing making these rules necessarry, then why change the tire rule, wickerbill/wing rule?

I understand that at a majority of the tracks the WoO race at that they TRACK isn't conducive to good racing (ie:  not wide enough, poorly prepared).  Maybe the issue has never been the format, but is the track preparation?

Now, this may end up backfiring on the Outlaws when they invade areas with full-time sprint car programs.  Drivers like Hodnett, Esh, McCarl, Lasoski, Brown, Marcedo, Allard, etc. are very good time trialers as well when the Outlaws roll into town, and I've seen Outlaw teams buried behind the invert in years past not be able to transfer to the main.

I'd imagine that will happen even more often now as there are no "slower" cars at the front of the field to keep everyone slowed down for a lap or two (one of my biggest gripes about hte invert at the Nationals going from 10 to 8.  You need those extra 2 "slower" cars to keep the field bunched up for that extra second or two to allow the "fast cars" to advance up through the heats).

Lets give it a chance. I like that you gotta race in your heat, but not sure about the no invert. I wish they would line up the B the same way. Don't like that they go back to time for that. If finish 7th in heat 1, you should get pole of B main. 

How about if you didn't know the invert for heats until after time trials? Put a 0 and a 4 in the hat. After time trials are over you draw one or the other. Keeps from sand bagging in time trials like some have been known to do. Then, line up the feature right off the heat finish. No dash. 

Cars and drivers are so good right now, any of the top 12-16 teams at any Outlaw show will win from the front of there heat. Just no easy way around it. 

I love it. The wellfare system that has been in place makes no sense to me. You qualify bad or average and are rewarded with a front-row starting spot. You are actually penalized for doing well. 

I understand the argument of inversion for passing. However, this isn't 1960, 1970 or 1980. It's not even the early 2000s. There is so much parity in the sport that it isn't going to be like it was years ago. 

I like the idea of guys being able to improve their spots. Time poor, save your night by racing through the heat race...If possible. It will be interesting to see how this plays out through the season.

Schatz's weakness of time trials showed last week. However, it didn't stop him from driving to the front. The guy is just that good.

The two-heat format has been championed by a lot of people. But when it has been done in Pennsylvania, it's fallen short in expectations...at least to me. The passing wasn't any more or less, and the show got longer. Of course, they did run time trials as well. Still, wasn't a fan of it. A lot of fans couldn't understand it, which would change over time, and it didn't have the pop I thought it would.

Your point on the invert going from 10 to 8 actually hurting the best qualifiers is an interesting one! I've never thought of it that way but I could see how that would exactly be the case in certain situations now that you say it.

Back to the format though I don't think they should be making decisions strickly off of "if the owners/drivers of the series like it." Its still the age old truth that without fans there probably wouldn't be racing or at least at this type of level. So if this turns out to be a flop with the fans how can you risk loosing your loyal fans in a niche market?

The NSL does some interesting things with a points system between qualifying and the heats but it is confusing for fans the know who makes the dash or main until the dash or mains line up. Unless there is a good annoucer keeping me updated its hard to keep up. I think for the heats to remain relevant there has to be an invert to create some more passing opportunities. Theres no perfect format. Otherwise we will just be a NASCAR style program with qualifying and a main event which I am NOT in favor of.

It was real helpful for the KKR cars, because they started up front, but they very seldom run from the back like Schatz. We all know why these rules were made.To give all those quick timers a shot at the front and dicipline all those who race better than they time. We will just have to wait and see how it all works out.It will be real good if the track is racey early in the heat races Should be exciting.

Guess it was too much to ask the "greatest sprint car drivers in the world" to have the fastest one in each heat to start 4th and have to pass TWO cars to make the dash.

Last year Schatz had very few "quick times" and a ton of feature wins. Saldana and McMahon had a lot of "quick times" and not as many feature wins. Coincidence? I think not. Sandbagging is hard to do in qualifying but the evidence is what it is. At least this year,though not perfect, forces you to get up on the wheel everytime you hit the track. Racing is about going fast, so if you are fast you get rewarded. With the fastest cars on the front row just means they get to lapped traffic faster. Still gotta pass cars to win.

What is wrong with rewarding the teams that are fast? If you qualify 12th, you should not start on the front row of the heat. The other point here is, yes Sweet did not pass many cars, but he also was fast enough all night to keep himself from being passed.

Dont forget that Schatz started 17th the 1st WoO night, was up to 2nd, and unfortunately blew a motor. 

There is no perfect format. The success of a show is almost 100% on the track conditions. I watched the 2nd WoO night(Saturday) and the track was semi-slick in the heats, and slick for the feature. There was multiple grooves and the racing was great.

Quit complaining and be happy that they are trying something new. 

By reading this thread. It sounds like what the Woo Late Models have been doing for years. Fast timer on the pole of each heat. But they also do what I call heat time trials. Say you have 24 cars thats 8 cars per heat. So the first 8 cars after the pill draw are hear one, next 8 heat 2, ect. The fast timer out of the of the heat cars, starts on the pole of that heat.

The dash is lined up heat1, P1P2 heat2, P1P2 heat3, P1P2 heat4, P1P2. Then do an row invert draw 0, 2, 3, 4. Example draw a 2, heat 2 is on the front row heat 1 moves to the second row, heat 3 and 4 stay in order. If it's a 4: heat 4, heat3, heat2, heat1.

If you want to see only the World of Outlaw drivers when they come to town, that would work but you can't do anything based on points or previous race results when you're counting on locals to fill out the field beyond the 10-12 cars that the WoO brings with them.  

I like this jac22. Just draw the spots for the first set of heats and let them rip! Invert the second set of heats based on the first finish order...passing and finishing points set up the a-main and b-main. That will work!