Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Well with your first point you once again prove what happens to people when they assume. I was against inverts and thought they were stupid long before I bought a little racecar,  which I don't drive by the way. I never understood inverts to begin with and when WoO went away from them in either 16 or 17 I was saying then that the racing was better.  Didn't get that little car until 21. And racing and any other form of competition is about 1 thing and 1 thing only, winning. Sure somethings can be fun, and there can be lessons taught and possibly some entertainment value but it is and should be about winning.  And the winner should be the best or the best should at least have the best shot at winning. Plus races with inverts have not shown me that they are anymore exciting than without and all you have to do is watch. It's a stupid made up illusion that people have etched in their brains that someone coming from the rear wins and it hardly happens. It's great when it does but it doesn't happen on a consistent basis. No one will ever convince me otherwise that the invert is the equivalent of coming in at halftime and saying,  "hey we know you're up by 21pts but, we need to make this game exciting for the people who paid to come here. And that poor team, they can't help that they are undersized, stupidly coach, and aren't as good as you but darn it they should have a chance of winning too. So we're going to put them ahead by 14pts but you scored 21 so just do what you have been doing and you should still win but at least this will entertain those idiots in the stands who know nothing about the sport." The invert is just 1 move away from basically giving everyone trophies

You're 100% correct, it is about protecting the teams.  I don't blame the WOO for this either (lets face it it's not just the WOO who protect their top stars, EVERY racing series does this in one way or another), it's not a good look for the WOO if their drivers aren't constantly up front.  If they are consistently getting their asses kicked by the locals, what would be the hype with seeing the WOO?  The casual fan might say "Why should I spend $40 on a ticket when next week I can spend $20 on a ticket and see the same winner?"  Also you could have WOO teams saying "WTF?  I've spent half a million dollars on wrecked race cars because I'm starting behind people who shouldn't be in a road car, this doesn't make sense to run with the WOO anymore."  I get why it's the way it is but that doesn't change the fact that before the A feature, it's a pretty boring event.

Did you see Larson win from 10th at USAC Turkey nite?

And? Is there a point? Winner came from 10th cool. Guess what, that has happened in races with no invert as well. Sheldon, Macedo, Sweet, Gravel, and others have all come from around there or even further back and have won. Some have transfered from the B and advanced 15, 19, 20+ spots. You do NOT need to have an invert for this to happen. It has been proven time and time again. You just have to actually watch the races and get over whatever dumb narrative has been taught that inverts produce better racing. They don't. It's the same racing, the same cars on the track. And if anything it is an even better feat and entertaining when someone comes from the back with no invert because it shows hey you missed it at the beginning of the night but were able to figure it out at the end and not one element of racing is more important than the others. 

And? Is there a point? Winner came from 10th cool. Guess what, that has happened in races with no invert as well. Sheldon, Macedo, Sweet, Gravel, and others have all come from around there or even further back and have won. Some have transfered from the B and advanced 15, 19, 20+ spots. You do NOT need to have an invert for this to happen. It has been proven time and time again. You just have to actually watch the races and get over whatever dumb narrative has been taught that inverts produce better racing. They don't. It's the same racing, the same cars on the track. And if anything it is an even better feat and entertaining when someone comes from the back with no invert because it shows hey you missed it at the beginning of the night but were able to figure it out at the end and not one element of racing is more important than the others. 

So now we don't know how to watch a race and have been taught a stupid narritive about how racing really should be. Wow, thanks for opening my eyes. How do you suppose drivers learn the art of racing? I firmly believe a driver will improve their skills when they learn how to pass others not start in front of them, although having some big dogs chasing you gives you another type of learning experience. I can't think of a good  driver or team that doesn't love to catch the competition  and pass them, if they can't they work on their program. Maybe you would enjoy drag racing, #1 fast guy races #16 during eliminations.

So now we don't know how to watch a race and have been taught a stupid narritive about how racing really should be. Wow, thanks for opening my eyes. How do you suppose drivers learn the art of racing? I firmly believe a driver will improve their skills when they learn how to pass others not start in front of them, although having some big dogs chasing you gives you another type of learning experience. I can't think of a good  driver or team that doesn't love to catch the competition  and pass them, if they can't they work on their program. Maybe you would enjoy drag racing, #1 fast guy races #16 during eliminations.

This guy's turned into another Strawser.  It's ok that he doesn't like inverts but if you don't agree with him, you don't know anything about the sport as far as he's concerned.  I've seen plenty of people in his situation, they buy a racecar.  Then they struggle because it's harder than they thought.  Some good people (lots of racers out there like this and I've never completly understood because they're helping people beat them, but they're at every track which is great) will help them out or they pay someone to help them .  That person is grateful and will believe everything that person says.  And the next thing you know they're "smarter" than every other person who doesn't race.  My only advice to a guy like this would be, don't be a total asshole because a day will come when you can't afford that racecar anymore and then some other arrogant asshole will come along and buy a racecar and tell you that you don't know anything about racing.  But he's smarter than me so I'm sure he's got all that figured out.

You do realize they can still pass without an invert right? All of you automatically see no invert and ASSume there is no passing. You can go watch about 6-7 years of races and watch guys passing all throughout the field with the outlaws. So yes you're confirming it's a stupid narrative.  Also,  the drivers do not start in the same spot every race nor will they start upfront every race. They will learn the art of racing because they will have to pass cars that are equal to better than them which will, Holy crap wait for it, make them better. It does not take any skill to pass a car that is a second off the pace. All the morons on here can do that. We all do it everyday on the freeway. The kids at our track even tell us it's easy to pass cars that are slower than them. They get better competing against cars equal to better than them. Worst race this year was the Kings Royal. A race that is heavily inverted.  Yes track conditions sucked but if the invert was as great and wondrous as all you make it out to be, there should have been passing. There wasn't,  it sucked. The invert actually made it worse because it left fast skilled guys out of the show that might have actually put on a show. Again, inverts are stupid. You can actually watch the races instead of going, they don't invert me no likey me going to not watch must have invert to be good

Why Nick, what ever do you mean?  Haven't you ever heard of the great 1990 Knoxville Nationals?  The "amazing" run by Doug Wolfgang, one of the greatest sprint car drivers in the country, driving one of the best cars in the country, tearing through 3 fields of inferior cars that all timed in 2-3 seconds slower than he did?  That's what I call "racing!!!!"   Forget the fierce battle up front between 2 cars that both started in the top 5 in one of the most epic finishes in Nationals history.  BORING!!!!!!   How could it possibly be exciting if Bobby Allen and Sammy didn't start from the back row?  I believe Bobby started 3rd and Sammy started 5th.  Might as well just hand them the trophy. 

The 2016 Nats?  Jason Johnson and Donny Shatz started 2nd and 4th I believe.   SNOOZER!!  I was also at Beaver Dam when Bill Balog won his only WoO race from the pole.  Forget the excellent racing up front and the fierce battles to hold off Pittman and Shatz, and the fact that the crowd was ready to explode at the end..............we got cheated by no inverts.  Terrible show.  Won't go back.   

If we don't go back to a time when we got to see Steve Kinser rip through a bunch of cars sponsored by "Bob's Quick Lube" and "Bill's Pizza Shack" I don't know what I'm gonna do.  I'll get my wife beater on, stand down in corner 1 with a Keystone Light, and pump my fist everytime the professional racer with 300 more HP than everyone else, tries to find a way to pass the gas station clerk, driving his neighbors car with the 12 year old motor and used tires.  That's racing baby!!!!!!   That's @#$ing racing!!!!!!!   Not 4 or 5 guys with equal cars trying to figure out how to get enough of advantage on the next lap to make the pass.  Screw that. 

Why can't the professional racer with the extra 300 hp pass the gas station clerk running used tires?

Why Nick, what ever do you mean?  Haven't you ever heard of the great 1990 Knoxville Nationals?  The "amazing" run by Doug Wolfgang, one of the greatest sprint car drivers in the country, driving one of the best cars in the country, tearing through 3 fields of inferior cars that all timed in 2-3 seconds slower than he did?  That's what I call "racing!!!!"   Forget the fierce battle up front between 2 cars that both started in the top 5 in one of the most epic finishes in Nationals history.  BORING!!!!!!   How could it possibly be exciting if Bobby Allen and Sammy didn't start from the back row?  I believe Bobby started 3rd and Sammy started 5th.  Might as well just hand them the trophy. 

The 2016 Nats?  Jason Johnson and Donny Shatz started 2nd and 4th I believe.   SNOOZER!!  I was also at Beaver Dam when Bill Balog won his only WoO race from the pole.  Forget the excellent racing up front and the fierce battles to hold off Pittman and Shatz, and the fact that the crowd was ready to explode at the end..............we got cheated by no inverts.  Terrible show.  Won't go back.   

If we don't go back to a time when we got to see Steve Kinser rip through a bunch of cars sponsored by "Bob's Quick Lube" and "Bill's Pizza Shack" I don't know what I'm gonna do.  I'll get my wife beater on, stand down in corner 1 with a Keystone Light, and pump my fist everytime the professional racer with 300 more HP than everyone else, tries to find a way to pass the gas station clerk, driving his neighbors car with the 12 year old motor and used tires.  That's racing baby!!!!!!   That's @#$ing racing!!!!!!!   Not 4 or 5 guys with equal cars trying to figure out how to get enough of advantage on the next lap to make the pass.  Screw that. 

Why Nick, what ever do you mean?  Haven't you ever heard of the great 1990 Knoxville Nationals?  The "amazing" run by Doug Wolfgang, one of the greatest sprint car drivers in the country, driving one of the best cars in the country, tearing through 3 fields of inferior cars that all timed in 2-3 seconds slower than he did?  That's what I call "racing!!!!"   Forget the fierce battle up front between 2 cars that both started in the top 5 in one of the most epic finishes in Nationals history.  BORING!!!!!!   How could it possibly be exciting if Bobby Allen and Sammy didn't start from the back row?  I believe Bobby started 3rd and Sammy started 5th.  Might as well just hand them the trophy. 

The 2016 Nats?  Jason Johnson and Donny Shatz started 2nd and 4th I believe.   SNOOZER!!  I was also at Beaver Dam when Bill Balog won his only WoO race from the pole.  Forget the excellent racing up front and the fierce battles to hold off Pittman and Shatz, and the fact that the crowd was ready to explode at the end..............we got cheated by no inverts.  Terrible show.  Won't go back.   

If we don't go back to a time when we got to see Steve Kinser rip through a bunch of cars sponsored by "Bob's Quick Lube" and "Bill's Pizza Shack" I don't know what I'm gonna do.  I'll get my wife beater on, stand down in corner 1 with a Keystone Light, and pump my fist everytime the professional racer with 300 more HP than everyone else, tries to find a way to pass the gas station clerk, driving his neighbors car with the 12 year old motor and used tires.  That's racing baby!!!!!!   That's @#$ing racing!!!!!!!   Not 4 or 5 guys with equal cars trying to figure out how to get enough of advantage on the next lap to make the pass.  Screw that. 

Why can't the professional racer with the extra 300 hp pass the gas station clerk running used tires?

I was going to be done with this but I had a couple of thoughts.  Since you two seem to share the same brain (maybe even the same device) I'll ask both of you, or point out my thoughts. 

First off, if you read through this whole thread, I said I would only like inverts for heat races and I don't think anyone disagreed with me, in fact it seemed like egras was starting to agree with me and even came up with his "perfect invert format" until Nick started posting.  I did say that I think starting the features straight up is just fine and has shown to make good racing due to the track changing.  Tell us about those great heat races you've seen over the last 10 years.  It's been pointed out multiple times that a lot of people think the heat races are boring.  Tell all of us how the current format has made sitting through heat races more entertaining.

Another thing I find interesting is you are pointing out features that have been exciting from years ago.  You keep pointing out the 2016 Knoxville Nationals.  Two things about that race.  First off that entire format or a condensed version of that format is just what some of us are asking for.  Also that was SEVEN years ago.  There was also a race from 2020 that got brought up.  Are you saying  under the current format there hasn't been a memorable race since 2020?  What about those memorable races from the past year?

I've answered every question you've had and I've asked this one multiple times but you haven't answered me yet.  DO YOU ENJOY SITTING THROUGH TIME TRIALS AND THEN HEAT RACES THAT ARE FOLLOW THE LEADER?  Please answer that.  My opinion is a WOO event is pretty boring until the features start.  Maybe other people like watching TTs and boring heat races?  But I'm not a fan of that.

You (or you guys) don't have to like inverts, I'm not saying you should.  Just look at it from a different perspective.  Some people don't like sitting through 2 hours of watching one car on the track at a time.  Then watching heat races that don't mean much where everyone gets spread out by a half of a straitaway.  Some people would like to change that.  Just because you don't see it that way, it doesn't make you smarter than everyone else (especially when you're not completely reading what people REALLY want).

I think Bill has figured out what it takes to run with the biggest names.  MONEY and giving up your life as you know it.  I think he tried it because the word was always "Why doesn't Bill Balog venture out and run with the Outlaws or All Stars"  Well, he did for a couple years and was fairly successful. Follow the leader sucks, I hate qualifying, and heat races are starting to bore me, for the same reason.