Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Not sure when the video will get posted but until then, let me help you out with some facts from the meeting...

A 2015 legal ASCS engine dynoed out at 705HP without the gasket.

Same engine with the gasket installed, no other changes came out at 670HP. That's (35) HP difference not (75).

A 2000 legal ASCS engine dynoed out at 675HP without the gasket.

Same engine with the gasket installed, no other changes came out at 650HP. A (25) HP difference.

If you want to figure the percentage of HP difference, I come up with (-4.96%) on the 2015 engine and (-3.70%) on the 2000 engine. Not quite (20%).

As far as somebody engineering a fuel injection to match the gasket ports, the gasket is designed to eliminate that. This gasket will have "markings" above and below the intake runner openings of the gasket. These "markings" must be viewable when checked or that car will be DQ'd. This keeps anybody from trying to match ports with the gasket.

I applaud the good conversation and I too can't wait for the video of the meeting so everybody will see the facts of the situation instead of listening to the "he said/she said". Not everybody is going to agree or like the results but they are what they are and we'll see the end result on the race track next summer...z

If I remember correctly, it was also stated that with the gasket installed he was able to get just a couple hp back on the 2015 motor buy adjusting some things. On the 2000 was able to gain another 17hp. So, when all is said and done you are talking about only a 10hp difference between a brand new 360 and a 15 year old one. Sounds like a pretty even playing field to me. Like Tod said in the meetings, the only ones that are going to hate this rule are the guys who want to out spend the competition for an advantage and the engine builders.

Z-MAN I wasnt saying a 20% loss in horsepower numbers. I am saying a 20% loss in cylinder charge. I could care less about HP numbers. Show me the dyno sheets and the torque curve.

  TTT

I just wish they would have said you all have to run the gasket to assert a big change instead of either or... Just my 10 cents... Should be a pretty wild offseason for the message boards at least!!

With that being said, Anyone looking for an older 360 motor here in the midwest. LOL. Seriously though, for sale or would entertain a trade for Racesaver motor :)

Check out Hoseheads Classifieds and other engines for sale sites, 360's have had a serious drop in resale value. 

Thank goodness!

Its good for me. This thing has been tucked away in the shop for years, couldnt afford to keep up. I like the way this NSL thing is going.

It would be informative to hear Kelly's take on this.  They were pretty much the first big 360 engine builder from back in the day.  If anyone would know how they all compare it's him.

Until they allowed the Chevy heads to be modified equal out against the Ford heads, we were stuck right at 695-700 for several years. That changed moved us to the 610-620 range, from what little I know so it's not like you had to redo ASCS heads every year. My first ASCS 360 made 683 back in 99 or 2000. When I sold it in 07, it was up to 695, but that didn't come from head work, it came from better internals and a new injector. ASCS isn't evil, I think it saved 360 racing and you could go almost anywhere in the country, except CA, and not be out horsepowered. I think the gasket, no gasket deal will just be confusing and actually limit fields.

Do you really think that you can just throw a set of gaskets on your motor and go racing? What about the cam and fueling the motor, then more dyno time to dial it in....

I agree with the two previous posts.

They NSL are going to have to kill at least 15% of motor or no one will be able to tell a good nsl car from a poor ascs car. That might be the point but it will cost quite a bit of dyno time and doing a "legal" job of matching up to the gasket. The gasket deal looks easy but I think more thought should have been put into it.

In the frontier region we are a long ways from the nsl. it is over 700 miles. Kind of limits the national show deal.

It is going to be interesting to see how asca answers. Who knows they are all in los vegas this week.

Here in the big sky country we are looking for another succesful ascs racing season.

Mac White

Two Dot

Well after watching the video,  the gasket almost looks like the old ascs gasket that was used years ago.  It will stop the money spent on progressively on upgrading porting on the heads.  A set that is considered average that may have been great 12 years ago, should run with a top notch set that is currently available.  or at least closer being the pinch point is now the gasket.  As long as nsl doesent ever allow a head other than the 11x brodix ascs it will work.  However I do believe an injector designed for the gasket to speed the air up right before it enters the gasket will be an advantage.  If im wrong so be it.  When you see Dragon Claws and Englers New for 2016 or 2017 for the NSL gasket well,  Im right and  I guess it costs more money again.   Really in all honesty the way ASCS is checking a couple simple measurements now and letting the rest of the port open is essentially the same thing.  The pushrod restriction is the pinch/measuremnet point in a sense just like the gasket.   The Gasket wont save money on freshens.  Cant bash NSL for trying something to equalize the field of engines,  But.... The same guys who are winning now,  will be winning again. WHY?  because they always find a way to the top.     But I will agree one of the biggest mistakes ASCS made was agreeing to the specs on the FORD ASCS motor.  The heads shouldnt have been casted that good from brodix.  Nice to start from a clean slate with strait intake ports when the 11x design is outdated and almost 30 years old!

Chuck can you clarify what heads are legal to run if you use the gasket??  Any 23degree head?? OPen Head??   Thanks....

Whether you run the gasket or not, the only cylinder heads allowed are legal ASCS Brodix heads.  They must still meet all of the ASCS rules and restrictions...z

How funny will it be to see the NSL rule book state that you must have ASCS heads?

Thank you Chuck. Thats what I thought.

So they're going to have to tech the heads anyway?  Wonder how they'll do that with the gasket in there?  ASCS cost everyone a bunch of money when they allowed Roush Yates in. That's basically why we're at this point now.