Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

What was said at 360 meeting with rules etc

Hopefully a report out soon, would like to know the final word on the engine rules while the 360 is in the shop.

I heard about the gasket, but we have an All Pro 21 degree raised runner head(Calif), and not sure that would even be legal with the gasket.

They said the video of the event would be on their website soon.  They did say that heads must be ASCS legal.  This year you have the option to run the gasket or not.  Basically their point money "Cash Bowl" and the like would go to drivers only running the gasket.  Weekly purse would be the same for everyone.

This is a great deal for owners and drivers.  The cash bowl is put together very well . Myself am not a fan of the restrictor gskt, however at the current course the 360s are on something needs to be done . The reality is if a racer can run an older engine without spending 40 to 50 grand on a motor to be competitive may help slow down the current departure of current owners and maybe bring in new young blood to the sport.  Now im not saying the gasket will do this but it is possible this is a step in the right direction.  Racers can not continue to spend several thousand dollars each year to update there engines to have the best possible power one can get. My hat goes off to everyone involved in the new nsl endeavor those involved are not doing for themselves they are doing this for the racing community .

Its a good idea in theory yes, but they way its implemented in confusing me. This year anyone with an ascs leagal engine can race the NSL, Not for the cash bowl but for the nights purse money. So automatically the guys who are running for the cashbowl are at a disagvantage. At Jackson Motorplex, motor is king. You wont win there if you run the gasket. Badlands and MSTS arent using the gasket so if an NSL 360 team wants to run on nights the NSL isnt racing hes immediately handicapped by the gasket. I dont like the best in class structure. Drivers want to win trophies. Youd make more money not having the gasket and running top 5 and contending to win all year than finishing 10th all season and getting the cash bowl pay out. If they would have done it they way they did the 410 deal I think it would be more successfull. Give the teams and icentive to change that puts the money in thier pockets every week, not a lump sum at the end of the season.

I agree with the engine and putting yourself at a disadvantage.  However....I don't think this is a great deal atleast this year when it's optional for the cars who show up and have a great chance of winning.  It's for the guy who runs 8-13 every week.  He'll accrue points towards year end money (providing he makes the 15 regional and 1 national shows minimum).  That's money that they normally would not get and be able to put back into their program.

The way it was stated was, "Even if you ran a C feature and you were the highest finishing gasket car in the infield for the night, you still receive 1st place points towards the "Cash Bowl" and it's point fund.".  I see this as a great thing for the lower dollar teams who mostly suffer due to not having a $45,000 360 engine or the money to update heads every year.

My take from hearing this is that a big motor will still always have an advantage at a bigger track, but it should tighten the pack up somewhat if everyone were to run it.  Time will tell, but it's about time someone is doing something to make it more affordable (or less costly possibly).

Thats the thing, not everyone is going to run the gasket. I cant see any team wanting to go to the track week in and out knowing they really dont have a shot at winning. I cant see any team happy for finishing the C main thinking "hell yeah, first place points!!!"

Is finishing 8-13th and enough in winnings to keep the car on track all year to be eligable for the cash bowl? Is not having the chance to win going to make guys choose to stay home?

I have to agree - not a fan of allowing current ASCS legal heads to compete against motors with the gaskets.  Mainly because I know over the years ASCS has allowed people to "touch up" the ASCS legal heads to a point where they are much better performing than they used to be. 

By the time my family got into ASCS the gasket had already been phased out, so I'll throw out this scenario as a question:

How do you know a car is running the gasket...unaltered?  I assume the gasket is easily visible?  Assuming there's someone out there with 'cheatin on the mind'....would it be possible to receive all the benefits that come with running the gasket (i.e. - Cash Bowl), when in fact the gasket has been altered to allow full air flow?  Is the only way to check this to pull the head?  How often will that actually happen?

Its the intake gasket & the while reason for doing it is so that all teams will be equal when it comes to motor bc the majority of the "big dogs" motors in ascs are not legal...hense not checking motors anymore??

This may not be a valid point, but.....if the gasket becomes the rule for all the following year (2017) then the teams that opt to run it this coming year will have a season under their belts and maybe be more prepared to win when everybody has to run it to run NSL in 2017. And it's obvious that Tod Quiring is dead serious about making the NSL succeed in the 410 and 360 divisions. The Cash Bowl is an incentive for teams to  run this year and it's a two fold plus for those who do (although someone more qualified than myself will need to explain any money difference in the engines). Less expensive engines (?) for 2016 and cash at the end of the year for those who use the gasket right away. Is it enough? We'll have to wait and see.

I would say that for a person who is not a top contender the gasket is worth it.  The pay scale is such that when you're in those places it's about $100 difference in weekly pay.  However the "Cash Bowl" stuff would be if you're the first car with gaskets, it's $300 worth of money at the end of the year.  Each point you earn will be worth $10.  National shows pay more points.

According to Tommy Estes, the gasket will have inspection points on it for easy visual tech.  Any alteration will result in being treated as you are not running the gasket that night.  This can and will be done upon the car entering the pits (what they said).  They have to know who has them so they can give proper points, and if they're already looking for them, they may as well tech at the same time.

As far as ASCS heads go, they are open at this time.  There is no "spec" about them other than the label.  Everything else is basically have at them.

for the person who is not a top contender, their engine programs are already lacking, So lest restrict them even more? The thought behind it was to close the gap not widen it. The guys with big motors already won't run the gasket.. They can be contenders 3 maybe 4 nights a week with MSTS, Badlands, Jackosn/NSL, while guys running the gasket are going to have less power everywhere they go. 

wingerdinger,

How much slower is your car going to be with the gasket installed?

20%. Everything I've read it has said I lose 20% of the cylinder charge. I'm already behind why would I totally take myself out? To run mid to the back but get first in class points? 

Where can I read this same information?

"Touch up".  I guess that's one description for it.  Lol. ??

I still cant find where they have posted the video yet,  But from what I have heard it would be 75 hp away from a top notch ASCS 360?   The only thing I see is more reliabilty from the engines if they only put out 620 to 630 hp.   Problem is the next thing will be injectors designed around the gasket,  (which will help),  and it really wont save money because the next thing will be engines designed around the gasket as far as internals lightened more than they are now because the hp will be less.  I dont get it?  ASCS finally has a simple method to check a couple measurements on the heads and now another change.  I am sure they were thinking a full tilt 360 with the gaskets will choke it down close to what an average 360 with the gaskets will put out.  But do you think your 48 lb crankshaft 3.500 stroke engine will take off on a resart or off the corner with a 34 pound small main, 1.850 journal .877 wrist pin motor?  The difference is in the thousands between then parts.    From what I heard Knoxville isnt going to change anything so thats good.

Ok wingerdinger who wrote what you read? Does this person have facts or just blowin smoke up everyones ass. I dont believe you will loose 20% on an older set of heads that dont have all the current updates.  But since I just happen to have access to a top of the line flow bench system and have both a older head and a new top of the line 2015 weld tec I am going to see how much it looses.  These gaskets have not been available yet so how do the experts get thee data? But hey continue to run this deal down. Or better yet get a road map and go anywhere the nsl isn't racing. 

I would say 20 percent woud be a strong number.  12 percent might be realistic. 

Now a 20 percent reduction in airflow thru a great flowing ascs head that flows 295 cfm would end up being 236 cfm.  That is believable,  that would put a 715 hp engine down to a 615-620 hp engine?   I wish they would just post the damn info so everyone could read it.