|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
September 05, 2012 at
08:59:53 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
07/04/2007
|
|
Posts:
|
321
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: 88sprint on September 04 2012 at 10:38:22 PM
Teching for 1 night isn't quite what I was going for. The last race of the year isn't the time to start teching. What about the other races this year? Not just Knoxville, ALL 305 races? They started at the last race this year, what happens when they stop at the first race next year? There are 2 problems with tech, the tracks for not enforcing the rules and the racers for letting them get away with it...I say pump every car that unloads EVERY WEEK. No exceptions. We all get there plenty early enough, it doesn't take that long. There are more items that need checked also, but pumping every week will be a neccessity if they are going to allow 350 blocks.
|
you are correct...but if they do not tech next year it will not matter, because there will be less than 10 cars in the 305 division and the top 6 will still be cheating
|
|
|
|
September 05, 2012 at
09:32:20 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
08/13/2006
|
|
Posts:
|
347
|
|
|
|
I don't know if I agree with there only being 10 cars next year, but time will tell. People will go to Knoxville just because it is Knoxville. That's why I was there. We drove 4 hours 1 way to run a 305 there, I can tell you we sure didn't do it for the money or points fund, we did it because we wanted to race at Knoxville. If all goes well, I will be doing it again next year for the same reason...
|
|
|
|
|
September 05, 2012 at
09:36:26 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
07/31/2012
|
|
Posts:
|
8
|
|
|
You guys need to go with racesaver or ascs 305 100% and draw in cars from all over the USA you only have 1 Knoxville quit trying to screw that up with odd ball rules. Look at 360 and 410 class you can come race from across the USA and be legal there! I know rule changes suck but just do it and look at the big picture or else you will never have a class that is anything more than a few locals racing there. Knoxville stands for sprint car racing and sprint car racing will follow what Knoxville does. Just do it! Or screw it! LOL
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
September 05, 2012 at
09:59:27 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
08/13/2006
|
|
Posts:
|
347
|
|
|
|
Part of the reason for wanting to allow 350 blocks is that the legal 305 blocks are getting hard to come by in the midwest. At least they are where I am. Racesaver isn't going to help that issue since they have the same casting number blocks that we are using now. I don't think Knoxville will go with Racesaver rules, but I have been wrong before.
|
|
|
|
|
September 05, 2012 at
10:52:16 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
01/20/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
2079
|
|
|
|
So, you guys want the tracks to tech you and cost your even MORE $$$ ???? That's almost as smart as politicians who spend out tax $$ on a study to see if cow $hit actually stinks so they can say: "According to the study we did the past year, cow $hit stinks less than hog $hit. We'll do more studies to see if we can reverse this trend....
So you race for $400 to win, and you want the track to pull the heads off of the top 3 finishers every week so they have to spend $$ to put the motor back together?? That makes tons of sense to me, let's make eveyone spend even more $$.
As a fan I look at it like this. You are racing for PEANUTS, let the guys that want to spend $15,000 on a motor spend it, use the 305's as a way to gain experience racing a sprint car and then move up to the 360 ranks when you can afford to (because the bottom line is this. The guys/teams that can afford big $$ motors will spend the $$ even if they are running a $300 claim class). The teams that can afford new tires still buy them knowing that even if they WIN that night, that they lost $$$.
The teams that won @ Knoxville all year won because they have EXPERIENCE (Larry Ball, Jr., Steve Breazeale, Mike VanHaaften, Matthew Stelzer) and their equipment doesn't break down. I could spend $100,000 on a 305 motor and I'd still get outrun by these guys if they were running a 6 cylinder in the car. EXPERIENCE still matters.
|
|
|
|
|
September 05, 2012 at
12:28:51 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
08/13/2006
|
|
Posts:
|
347
|
|
|
|
Pulling a head isn't the only way to tech a motor. That would defintely cost everyone more money, I agree. Pumping doesn't cost anything, compression check doesn't cost anything, checking for roller cams doesn't either. There are easy ways to keep the class in line and they already have the tools needed to do it. If heads are where people are cheating, make a spec head and let them port all they want. As long as everyone is on the same head, porting would be an equal option for all of them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
September 05, 2012 at
12:55:33 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
01/20/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
2079
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: 88sprint on September 05 2012 at 12:28:51 PM
Pulling a head isn't the only way to tech a motor. That would defintely cost everyone more money, I agree. Pumping doesn't cost anything, compression check doesn't cost anything, checking for roller cams doesn't either. There are easy ways to keep the class in line and they already have the tools needed to do it. If heads are where people are cheating, make a spec head and let them port all they want. As long as everyone is on the same head, porting would be an equal option for all of them.
|
I'm not saying it is the only way to tech a motor, but apparently that's what everyone EXPECTS as they are CONVINCED that the front runners are cheating. Seems to me that I remember hearing fans and competitors talk about how Larry Bll, Jr. has over $20,000 in his 305 motor. Funny thing is, if he does then why did he only win 1 race @ Knoxville all year?
There's obviously a lot more to the equation than just a strong motor program, because otherwise going off the the "he's cheating" logic, he would have won them all.
I remember when the 360 division started, same rumors were bantered about the 55 Car of Terry Thorson (the Jensen Construction Sprinter) and the 1 car (when unponsored, the TMC car, and when he drove for Archie Ergenbright) of David Hesmer. They got teched more than any other team and they still won a majority of the races (until the 55 moved up to the 410 ranks, then it took them a few years to get going). Those teams worked HARDER than everyone else and they didn't drop out of races, so they were always in position to take advantage when someone else broke and ended up winning a LOT of races.
|
|
|
|
|
September 05, 2012 at
01:10:53 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
08/13/2006
|
|
Posts:
|
347
|
|
|
|
I can tell you the competition in the 305 class at Knoxville is as strong as anywhere in any class. The top 5 cars weekly are tough to beat. I am not saying anyone is cheating(I really don't think the top cars are), but I would like to see them tech to make sure of it!! I am sure a couple guys would like to see mine teched too, thats fine with me. The cars that are winning regularly are exactly like you said, they work hard, have experience, and don't make very many mistakes. It is hard to beat that.
|
|
|
|
September 05, 2012 at
04:10:54 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/05/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
840
|
|
|
Actually a little effort to check the cars can go a long way. We are well beyond having to tear them down to do a weekly check. Burlington pumps the engine and then runs a Snap On camera down into the cylinder to check for infractions. Like 88Sprint said, there are a lot of ways to check a car without taking it apart. On top of that if every competitor thought that there was a possibility that they may be looked at they are less likely to push their luck. That is an environment that can only be achieved through effort on the part of the track personnel.
Tear downs are necessary but should not be a part of weekly tech. Some classes do a tear down at the start of the season as a way to certify a car or engine and others do it at the end. Unless there is a car with an obvious in your face advantage, tear down should be the last thing on the list. But some form of weekly tech should exist. A lot of the stuff can be found rather easily. A valve cover only has 4 bolts, and most guys run re-usable valve cover gaskets. No expense there.
Never hit stationary objects!
|
|
|
|
|
|
September 05, 2012 at
10:11:51 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
05/03/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
156
|
|
|
|
I want to make sure everyone understands that this meeting is about a NEW FRESH START to 305 sprint car racing in the middle of our country! If we do not change, our sport will fade away due to HIGH costs. A fresh start with people that want 305's to prosper, but are not a driver or have no direct ownership of a car in the series. If you have any ideas, objections, or opinions, please come to the meeting. September 9th, at the Happy Chef in Story City, Iowa.
Thanks,
Mark Aaron
Sprint Car Racing Fan
|
|
|
|
|
September 06, 2012 at
02:07:35 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/05/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
840
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: 305 9A on September 05 2012 at 10:11:51 PM
I want to make sure everyone understands that this meeting is about a NEW FRESH START to 305 sprint car racing in the middle of our country! If we do not change, our sport will fade away due to HIGH costs. A fresh start with people that want 305's to prosper, but are not a driver or have no direct ownership of a car in the series. If you have any ideas, objections, or opinions, please come to the meeting. September 9th, at the Happy Chef in Story City, Iowa.
Thanks,
Mark Aaron
Sprint Car Racing Fan
|
That is a great idea, people need to get together and end up on the same page. I wish that it could have happened long before we left 305, and the way things are going I may be out of Sprint Cars all together. I hope that things go your way and the 305 clubs, ie: car owners, drivers, track owners and officials can come together on this. I feel that Sprint Car racing as a whole needs a class that the average guy can get into and race with the vision of being able to move up in the coming years. Good luck to all of you.
Never hit stationary objects!
|
|
|
|
|
September 06, 2012 at
06:19:13 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
11/25/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
558
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: 88sprint on September 05 2012 at 09:59:27 AM
Part of the reason for wanting to allow 350 blocks is that the legal 305 blocks are getting hard to come by in the midwest. At least they are where I am. Racesaver isn't going to help that issue since they have the same casting number blocks that we are using now. I don't think Knoxville will go with Racesaver rules, but I have been wrong before.
|
I ran 305's for awhile,and used approved block casting numbers,but to this day still don't know why some castings are allowed and some are not,what are the differences?In going with a 350 block are you talking sleeving the cylinders or shortening the stroke? If it's shortening the stroke I think your screwing up,the short stroke motor will rev quicker and out perform the real 305.Ever see a 302 chevy run?,they were screamers! It's also gonna cost more as the 3 inch cranks are not as common or easy to come by.In my opinion if your gonna start using 350 blocks,it just as well be a 350 series,the only added expense is for the 350 pistons,everything else stays the same.A short stroked 350 and a 305 are not in the same league as far as race motors go,the short stroke motor is superior.I dont think going down this path will be good for the 305 class.305 blocks are no where near extinct.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
September 06, 2012 at
09:45:52 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
09/14/2008
|
|
Posts:
|
84
|
|
|
Yes it would be a big bore short stroke you would have to run a 283 crank.it is the same bore to stroke as the ford motor if my info is correct. The only thing I know is the casting numbers that are allowed in are rules are all American made blocks. I could be wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
September 06, 2012 at
01:19:50 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
07/31/2012
|
|
Posts:
|
8
|
|
|
You can buy a brand new 305 block from gm
|
|
|
|
|
September 06, 2012 at
01:59:08 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/05/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
840
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Overthehell on September 06 2012 at 01:19:50 PM
You can buy a brand new 305 block from gm
|
GM's new 305 blocks are manufactured in Mexico and will not stand up the abuse of a race environment very well. My understanding is that the best blocks are left hand dipstick pre-1985 blocks, and they are hard to come by. The fellow that donates his time to help with our engines hates using anything post 1985, but unfortunately that is all that we have been able to find. There is a place in Bourbanais (spelled that wrong) Illinois called KB Core. They clean the blocks, crack check them and are willing to tell you what the current bore size on a block is so that you know where you are starting at. They will also check for any information on any block that they have on the shelf so that you know exactly what you are getting. They made sure that our blocks fell into the list of legal blocks before we drove out there to pick one up. I have purchased 3 blocks from them for $200. a piece and they have all been really good blocks. We ran the same block that we purchased there for three seasons and it turned out to be a great investment. We never had to touch the other two.
Never hit stationary objects!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
September 06, 2012 at
02:11:21 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
01/20/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
2079
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: 305 9A on September 05 2012 at 10:11:51 PM
I want to make sure everyone understands that this meeting is about a NEW FRESH START to 305 sprint car racing in the middle of our country! If we do not change, our sport will fade away due to HIGH costs. A fresh start with people that want 305's to prosper, but are not a driver or have no direct ownership of a car in the series. If you have any ideas, objections, or opinions, please come to the meeting. September 9th, at the Happy Chef in Story City, Iowa.
Thanks,
Mark Aaron
Sprint Car Racing Fan
|
So you want to "re-invent the wheel" (just going off your "NEW FRESH START" statement).
What will that accomplish? you have to incorporate what is out there currently, otherwise you are just splintering sprint car racing even more than it already is....
|
|
|
|
|
September 06, 2012 at
04:19:31 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
07/04/2007
|
|
Posts:
|
321
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: vande77 on September 06 2012 at 02:11:21 PM
So you want to "re-invent the wheel" (just going off your "NEW FRESH START" statement).
What will that accomplish? you have to incorporate what is out there currently, otherwise you are just splintering sprint car racing even more than it already is....
|
hey man ..what is your problem..you say you are a fan ..but i do not think so..you are a keyboard negitive..every post that you get involved in is a negitive vibe..and so what if a bunch of guys want to level the playing field by making a effort and putting in some hard work ..trying to bring the racers together..get a life ..go find some other form of sport to put down.
|
|
|
|
|
September 06, 2012 at
07:08:40 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
01/16/2011
|
|
Posts:
|
8
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: 88sprint on September 05 2012 at 09:59:27 AM
Part of the reason for wanting to allow 350 blocks is that the legal 305 blocks are getting hard to come by in the midwest. At least they are where I am. Racesaver isn't going to help that issue since they have the same casting number blocks that we are using now. I don't think Knoxville will go with Racesaver rules, but I have been wrong before.
|
If you are looking for 305 blocks call Wheeler Power Products, (904)-317-8099, or visit their website at www.wheelerpowerproducts. They are located in Jacksonville, Florida.
We won the 2012 305 Knoxville Raceway track championship using a block purchased from Wheeler Power Products for only $1,000. It was all machined and ready for us to put together when we got it. It's the same one that is in the Speedway Motors catalog.
Call them and tell them Scott/Matthew Stelzer sent you.
Vande77: I agree EXPERIENCE is the key. Steve Breazeale, Larry Ball, Jr., Mike VanHaaften, J. Kinder, Casey Friedrichson, and myself (all features winners this year) have years of experience.
|
|
|
|
|
|
September 07, 2012 at
12:03:17 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
02/11/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
1457
|
|
|
|
Kustomincorp: Did you get my e-mail??
I am lucky enough to work at one of the best tracks
anywhere.
|
|
|
|
|
September 07, 2012 at
01:14:18 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
04/12/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
253
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Eagle Pit Shack Guy on September 07 2012 at 12:03:17 PM
Kustomincorp: Did you get my e-mail??
|
YES THANKS FOR YOUR EMAIL..I WILL MAKE THE CALL
|
|
|
