Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I saw some unhappy tweets....

Is it because of the wheel tethers, the seats, the tire rule or the owner points rule? Some are saying that they can't run the All Star shows now....

Whatever it is, this series has to make it affordable for more guys to race in it......this series has to understand it's competetors and the challenges they face. 

If this turns into World of Outlaws light, I'm not so sure that would be a good thing for many race teams....

Let's hope this is just a hiccup

I personally don't see anything in the bulletin that is a "show stopper" for car owners or drivers.  I'm guessing the membership rule is the one they are complaining about.  All the others look pretty standard (as most other organizations or tracks already have these rules).

Here's what the bulletin says: 

2015 All Star Circuit of Champions

Atomic Speedway Bulletin

Technical

1. Full containment seats are recommended for 2015 and will be mandatory in 2016.

2. Front axle tether systems must be utilized by May 1st, 2015 (Lernerville Speedway). This includes the "king pin to king pin" tether.

3. When mufflers are required, the only acceptable muffler is the Schoenfeld # 14272735-78, a complete schedule based list of where mufflers are required will be available soon; however, mufflers are not required at Atomic Speedway or Attica Raceway Park.

4. The tire rule for 2015 will include the following language: the same right rear tire used for qualifying must also be used in heat race(s) and dash. Right rear tire may be changed for main events. The Hoosier H-R 15 right rear tire will be allowed in competition.

5. The 2015 rule book should be finalized this week and be available online on the All Stars website and available in print shortly thereafter.

Membership

1. Multiple car owners may share owner points (towards the points fund) if such car owners only utilize one driver in their respective cars during the season and such driver is exclusive to these car owners during all All Star Circuit of Champions events.

I would assume most people are upset about the tethers and the tire rule change. A set of those tethers is over $300. The old tire rule required you to run the same tire all night except in the dash or the B main. Now the higher budget teams can put a new tire on for the A where the low budget teams won't be able to afford that. 

These rules are fine. The axle teathers are a safety concern. You cant put a price on safety. The tire rule is fine because a lot of tracks a tire just doesnt hold up for a full night. 

What didnt make sense was how the schedule used to be set up. And btw, everyone should be happy that the advertised point fund will actually get paid out now!

Its the first year for the new ownership. I think everyone needs to relax and see how everything plays out. Start making judgements after speedweek. Wouldnt surprise me if Tony and team are trying to put a nice point fund/sponsor together for that week.

Time will tell.

If a fulltime team cannot afford 1 more tire per night then I would suggest they find another line of work. It was not that long ago we put a new tire on the car every single time it hit the track, so 2 tires per night would have been great.

DA

And nobody is saying that you have to run a new tire in the feature, it's just now an option.  Granted some teams will utilize that option, but it's not mandatory to bolt on a new tire before you line up for the A main.

Also - any complaint about requirements that enhance the saftey of the sport are ridiculous.  Those axle tethers should be mandatory at every race track.  If they save one life, they are worth every penny spent.

Welcome to 2015.  The world where everyone complains about something all the time

If car owners are complaining about a $300 part, I don't want to see them bolting in a "back-up" engine at any race all year....

The tire rule?  I personally don't care for it when they allow any car to change a tire (you should run the same tire in TT, heat, and feature (eliminate the dash alltogether) - makes tire choice important (it means you have to decide BEFORE the program starts where you think the racetrack is going as opposed to getting a "mulligan" right before the feature pushes off).

Seats (anyone driving a sprint car without a full containment seat shouldn't be driving one IMO (same goes for any type of racecar.  Unfortunately, sanctioning bodies have to mandate safety equipment in order to get people to spend $$$ on it (most teams would run with 20 year old safety belts if they could too)).

If the tire doesnt hold up for the night then they probably should be looking at using a different tire in that situation. Choosing the right tire, taking risks, possibly being less stuck down on the track all might yield better racing (Certianly wouldnt hurt it.)

As for the the costs if other teams are changing their tires for the feature the lower budgets teams are nearly forced to follow suit to try and stay competitive.

I agree with your assessment about tires maybe making the racing better, disagree on teams being "forced" to put new tires on.

Team A puts on the softest tire available for TT and it's junk by the end of their heat, so they put on a medium tire for the feature (which may or may not make it the full 25 laps).

Team B bolts on a hard tire before TT and runs it all night (argueably, they may be in a BETTER situation than Team A is during the feature).

No one is being "forced" to put on a new tire, it actually should make the racing better.  An amendment to the rule should be that anyone that changes a tire for the feature lines up at the rear (behind B-main transfers).  Make it so tire choice is IMPORTANT at the beginning of the night as well as the end fo the night.  Gives you the best of both worlds (guys that think they need to change their tires can, but teams that don't want to spend the $$ to change them get the starting positions that are up front.

A hard compound in time trials might mean a poor timing spot not making invert for the heat. That compound may also be too hard to make any sort of run if the heat has multiple yellows where heat never really builds in the tire putting them at a disadvantage. They may be then in the back of the A or even the B.

So in turn they are "somewhat" forced to use soft tires (on certian tracks or situations) that burn up quickly to keep up with those where money is of no issue to try and put them where they need to be by the main to seriously contend for a win. 2 sets of tires would be used by most teams including some who would rather not have to spend that kind of money if they didnt have to.

I guess I just dont see much downside to the 1 tire rule. Also how many Team B's are out there and are competitive? Not a knock but an honest question.

The tire game is how people win races.  Having a hard tire may mean instead of timing in Quick time, they time in 12th (behind 11 guys that bolted on the softest tires available).  If even 3 guys in front of him are forced to change tires before the feature, with an 8 invert he's now on the pole.

The bottom line is guys that THINK they are at a disadvantage are at one (in their mind they already lost), whereas those that believe the decisions they are making is what is going to win them the race are already ahead of their competition (regardless of what a stopwatch tells you during time trials).  A drivers "confidence" can make a 5th place car a winning car and a drivers "lack of confidence" can make a winning car run 10th.

In the old days (the 80's when everyone was CONVINCED we had the best racing), the tires were ALL harder than even the hardest compound today.  Many guys mixed and matched tire brands and compounds on every corner to get the best set-up (Wolfgang is a great example, I saw him run a Goodyear, McCreary and Hoosier on the car all at the same time).  Nowadays everyone has convinced themselves that if they don't run the same tire as another car that they have already lost the race.  HARD WORK wins races, not tires IMO.

As far as how many "team B's" are out there?  There are a lot more than you think, the problem is that those teams have convinced themselves that they aren't competitive unless htey put on new tires.  Those teams will NEVER win races, they have already beat themselves.

Fact is that a new tire will always be better than an old. Period. The high budget teams will use 2 tires every night. The low budget teams won't be able to afford it and thus they will be at a disadvantage. And anyone who says that if you have a race car you should be able to afford two tires a night please come see me, I will gladly take $250 out of your pocket every night for another new tire.

I also saw some comments about the mufflers that are required to be used at some tracks........Are they expensive? How much can the Schoenfield mufflers cost? Would this cause a team to not participate?

The mufflers cost around 140.00 to 150.00 a set plus if you run flanges for clamps thats a extra 30.00. The tethers cost around 500.00 total for the axle kit and the king pin kit.The fact is the outlaws have corporate sponsors ,so this so called little stuff means nothing to them. But to the local racers this little stuff year after year keeps adding up . and eventually the car count falls to nothing.

Outlaws, NSL, and even the All Stars will probably have 12+ guys bolting on the softest tires each night. This also matters in points battles when it comes to qualifying. Loosing points and not making inverts are serious things for these guys.

As for the mind games theory... True-ish I believe it to an extent but typically at the end of the day deeper pockets will generally prevail when two guys have the same mindset.

No matter what the racing is gonna be good. Just hoping for some relief for some of the less funded teams out there as thats where racing in the dirt originates.

I just bought a set and they cost $130 shipping included. We weld ours on since our home track requires them.

I might ad that these mufflers can last for years.  They last longer than headers.  This will be our 3 rd year that we take them off of old headers and put them on new headers.

Fremont has stated on twitter they will allow either the regular mufflers or All Star mufflers. Interesting.

1. the old tire rule was made to save the owners money whice everybody bitches that series and tracks need to do.

2. only 3 times in my 6 years was there any worries about tires making it the whole night. aka sharon, and twice at valusia.

3. adding $10,000 to the expenses for doing the whole allstar deal will chase some away

4. the last time it was talked about opening the tire to two a night teams said they wouldnt follow if that happened.

5. and mufflers do last for a long time and since all the tracks in ohio pa that require mufflers is the old or either one. aka sharon, attica, fremont, wayne county, mercer, port royal, lernerville.

6. the seats and teathers i agree with.