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Topic: Some are not happy with new ASCoC rules?
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March 25, 2015 at
12:32:14 AM
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The best I can figure is the king pin tether system is $240 and the radius rod tethers are $110 each. That's $460. Am I correct? We never looked into buying them.
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March 25, 2015 at
02:56:53 AM
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I haven't seen any All Star teams bitching about the new rules? Just people that might play with them from time to time.
do it in the dirt
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March 25, 2015 at
07:19:55 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: butch s on March 24 2015 at 10:14:46 PM
1. the old tire rule was made to save the owners money whice everybody bitches that series and tracks need to do.
2. only 3 times in my 6 years was there any worries about tires making it the whole night. aka sharon, and twice at valusia.
3. adding $10,000 to the expenses for doing the whole allstar deal will chase some away
4. the last time it was talked about opening the tire to two a night teams said they wouldnt follow if that happened.
5. and mufflers do last for a long time and since all the tracks in ohio pa that require mufflers is the old or either one. aka sharon, attica, fremont, wayne county, mercer, port royal, lernerville.
6. the seats and teathers i agree with.
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So, it must be the tires that are the main issue, right?
How much do the right rears cost? At $250 each, and about 50 races, that would add up to an extra $13,000 for the whole tour......
Even if you only hit some of the All Star races, that is still alot of extra expense for some teams.....
I say leave the tire rule the way it was. The quality of the racing didn't seem to be affected....What is wrong with having more cars being able to compete?
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March 25, 2015 at
08:01:01 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: no nerf bars on March 25 2015 at 07:19:55 AM
So, it must be the tires that are the main issue, right?
How much do the right rears cost? At $250 each, and about 50 races, that would add up to an extra $13,000 for the whole tour......
Even if you only hit some of the All Star races, that is still alot of extra expense for some teams.....
I say leave the tire rule the way it was. The quality of the racing didn't seem to be affected....What is wrong with having more cars being able to compete?
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Again, nobody is making it mandatory that a new right rear is bolted on. It just makes it an option. If the owners are so concerned about cost, they won't do it.
Secondly, regarding the tethers, it was mentioned on Winged Nation yesterday from Don Grabey that they will work with teams and push that date back from May 1 to likely July 1 as the mandatory date. That gives these teams some more time to deal with the added expense.
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March 25, 2015 at
09:00:44 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: meatbag on March 25 2015 at 02:56:53 AM
I haven't seen any All Star teams bitching about the new rules? Just people that might play with them from time to time.
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as of now the only ones that have said they are running the deal is dale danny cody and ryan so you need a lot of time to time cars to make a race. there was no reason to change the tire rule it is the only rule that SAVED the owners money. just because tony is the owner dosent make it ok. if they want to make the cost the same as it is for the outlaws then they need to raise the purse. when rules are changed for no reason its a lot times it put a kick back of $$$$$ to the series and cost the owners.
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March 25, 2015 at
09:23:41 AM
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With all do respect, tethers are a good idea in theory but thew way that they are designed right now they are going to kill a driver. I understand that spectators are safer now but the drivers are put in a bad spot the way they are designed right now. They are getting better but not there yet.
I think that properly designed tethers are going to save lives in the future ( drivers and spectators) but its not there right now and the drivers are in much more danger now than before tethers.
The Sheldon Haudenchild video at knoxville last year on the front stretch shows the axle holding together but if another driver got tangled up in the it would have been really ugly!
Again, not trying to be a negative Nancy but before they are MANDATORY there is a lot more work that needs to be done on the tethers.
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March 25, 2015 at
09:59:22 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Keyboard Jockey on March 25 2015 at 09:23:41 AM
With all do respect, tethers are a good idea in theory but thew way that they are designed right now they are going to kill a driver. I understand that spectators are safer now but the drivers are put in a bad spot the way they are designed right now. They are getting better but not there yet.
I think that properly designed tethers are going to save lives in the future ( drivers and spectators) but its not there right now and the drivers are in much more danger now than before tethers.
The Sheldon Haudenchild video at knoxville last year on the front stretch shows the axle holding together but if another driver got tangled up in the it would have been really ugly!
Again, not trying to be a negative Nancy but before they are MANDATORY there is a lot more work that needs to be done on the tethers.
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Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this about the tethers. I do not want them on my car.
Looking for security? Try www.rssmonitoring.com
Looking for eternal security? Try www.ohiograce.com
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March 25, 2015 at
10:11:44 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Keyboard Jockey on March 25 2015 at 09:23:41 AM
With all do respect, tethers are a good idea in theory but thew way that they are designed right now they are going to kill a driver. I understand that spectators are safer now but the drivers are put in a bad spot the way they are designed right now. They are getting better but not there yet.
I think that properly designed tethers are going to save lives in the future ( drivers and spectators) but its not there right now and the drivers are in much more danger now than before tethers.
The Sheldon Haudenchild video at knoxville last year on the front stretch shows the axle holding together but if another driver got tangled up in the it would have been really ugly!
Again, not trying to be a negative Nancy but before they are MANDATORY there is a lot more work that needs to be done on the tethers.
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But without the tether during that wreck, we'd probably be talking about a lawsuit over fans being killed by a flying axle that night. The season prior, an axle came over the fence and luckily no one was seriously injured or killed (and there were a LOT less people there than what are at the Nationals).
Are the tethers perfect? No. Are they getting better? Yes. Should they be mandatory? IMO, yes, as they are for FAN SAFETY, no one has ever said they are for driver safety.
Drivers asssume the risk that they could be seriously injured or killed when they decide they want to be a driver.
Crew Members, Race and Track Officials and safety personnel also assume some risk as they are out there on the track with the racecars (even under caution they are dangerous).
FANS do not assume they have a chance to be seriously injured or killed while spectating, therefore many Safety enhancements are to keep the FANS safe (if it was only about the safety of the driver, we wouldn't have any walls around any racetrack (you'd just drive off into the distance or crash off into the distance and not hit anything), racetracks wouldn't even attempt to sell tickets (they'd just charge the teams more $$ to get in and use that $$ only to pay purses.
Anyone that only looks at a safety feature from one angle is not looking at the "big picture". You can't have a miopic view of the sport (that's what happened to CART and the Indy 500, they both had miopic views and now CART doesn't exist and the Indy 500 has lost a TON of lustre in the eyes of the fans, sponsors, teams, etc.).
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March 25, 2015 at
10:24:53 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: vande77 on March 25 2015 at 10:11:44 AM
But without the tether during that wreck, we'd probably be talking about a lawsuit over fans being killed by a flying axle that night. The season prior, an axle came over the fence and luckily no one was seriously injured or killed (and there were a LOT less people there than what are at the Nationals).
Are the tethers perfect? No. Are they getting better? Yes. Should they be mandatory? IMO, yes, as they are for FAN SAFETY, no one has ever said they are for driver safety.
Drivers asssume the risk that they could be seriously injured or killed when they decide they want to be a driver.
Crew Members, Race and Track Officials and safety personnel also assume some risk as they are out there on the track with the racecars (even under caution they are dangerous).
FANS do not assume they have a chance to be seriously injured or killed while spectating, therefore many Safety enhancements are to keep the FANS safe (if it was only about the safety of the driver, we wouldn't have any walls around any racetrack (you'd just drive off into the distance or crash off into the distance and not hit anything), racetracks wouldn't even attempt to sell tickets (they'd just charge the teams more $$ to get in and use that $$ only to pay purses.
Anyone that only looks at a safety feature from one angle is not looking at the "big picture". You can't have a miopic view of the sport (that's what happened to CART and the Indy 500, they both had miopic views and now CART doesn't exist and the Indy 500 has lost a TON of lustre in the eyes of the fans, sponsors, teams, etc.).
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This guys said it all for me.
I think drivers forget that without the fans you are not racing.
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March 25, 2015 at
10:30:00 AM
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Lernerville required tethers starting last year. Lots of small budget teams run there weekly...didn't lose any of them because of it. I don't think that's an issue as eventually it will be required at all tracks anyway/
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March 25, 2015 at
12:35:51 PM
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While were at it let's tether the following parts.
Rear End
Jacobs Ladder
Radius rods
Torsion arms and stops
Wheels
Mud covers
Shocks
Headers and Mufflers
Both wings
Engine
Bumpers and nerfs
Then maybe it will safe enough to watch this barbaric sport until then I will sit in my mom's basement where it's safe.
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March 25, 2015 at
01:37:54 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: vande77 on March 25 2015 at 10:11:44 AM
But without the tether during that wreck, we'd probably be talking about a lawsuit over fans being killed by a flying axle that night. The season prior, an axle came over the fence and luckily no one was seriously injured or killed (and there were a LOT less people there than what are at the Nationals).
Are the tethers perfect? No. Are they getting better? Yes. Should they be mandatory? IMO, yes, as they are for FAN SAFETY, no one has ever said they are for driver safety.
Drivers asssume the risk that they could be seriously injured or killed when they decide they want to be a driver.
Crew Members, Race and Track Officials and safety personnel also assume some risk as they are out there on the track with the racecars (even under caution they are dangerous).
FANS do not assume they have a chance to be seriously injured or killed while spectating, therefore many Safety enhancements are to keep the FANS safe (if it was only about the safety of the driver, we wouldn't have any walls around any racetrack (you'd just drive off into the distance or crash off into the distance and not hit anything), racetracks wouldn't even attempt to sell tickets (they'd just charge the teams more $$ to get in and use that $$ only to pay purses.
Anyone that only looks at a safety feature from one angle is not looking at the "big picture". You can't have a miopic view of the sport (that's what happened to CART and the Indy 500, they both had miopic views and now CART doesn't exist and the Indy 500 has lost a TON of lustre in the eyes of the fans, sponsors, teams, etc.).
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Vande77 I agree with you that the tethers are mostly for the spectators and fans, but when you "rob Peter to pay Paul" and decide that it good enough, that doesnt cut it in my book. Since there have been approved methods from WoO and AllStars of tethering the axle people have said "since its approved, it must work."
My with this is that when the next best thing comes out and its manditory and the outdated manditory part becomes obsolite that's when it becomes a cost issue.
Realistically a team is going to need a minimum of 2 sets and more than likely will have 3-5 sets of tethers. When things change and something else becomes manditory and teams must set those unused parts on the shelves people are going to start being frustrated with the process.
Honestly I dont have a great answer on how to make this safer for both the fans and the racers, but when you make something manditory that puts the drivers at more risk, thats a bad deal.
I am just curious, have you seen where the left front wheel, hub, and axle end up if the axle is sheered off at the left radius rod and shock mount with the current "approved" systems that are out there? 26 to 28 inches of tether plus another 12-14 inches of axle that the tether is clamped to plus the spindle, hub, and wheel gives you 40+ inches of "tetherball effect" from the radius rod downtube that lands in the drivers lap. That's not good!
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March 25, 2015 at
01:46:09 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: IADIRT on March 24 2015 at 04:33:03 PM
Outlaws, NSL, and even the All Stars will probably have 12+ guys bolting on the softest tires each night. This also matters in points battles when it comes to qualifying. Loosing points and not making inverts are serious things for these guys.
As for the mind games theory... True-ish I believe it to an extent but typically at the end of the day deeper pockets will generally prevail when two guys have the same mindset.
No matter what the racing is gonna be good. Just hoping for some relief for some of the less funded teams out there as thats where racing in the dirt originates.
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Low buck teams are what make certain WOO drivers look so great.
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March 25, 2015 at
03:32:11 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: tenter on March 25 2015 at 12:32:14 AM
The best I can figure is the king pin tether system is $240 and the radius rod tethers are $110 each. That's $460. Am I correct? We never looked into buying them.
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The KRCO bought all the Knoxville regulars front axle tethers and torsion stop locks. That means the low buck teams paid $0.00 for thiers. Too bad more tracks do not have people who do things like this for the regulars at their tracks. This is why I buy a bunch of 50/50 tickets every night and if I win it I will give my half back to the KCRO.
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March 26, 2015 at
01:32:58 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Keyboard Jockey on March 25 2015 at 01:37:54 PM
Vande77 I agree with you that the tethers are mostly for the spectators and fans, but when you "rob Peter to pay Paul" and decide that it good enough, that doesnt cut it in my book. Since there have been approved methods from WoO and AllStars of tethering the axle people have said "since its approved, it must work."
My with this is that when the next best thing comes out and its manditory and the outdated manditory part becomes obsolite that's when it becomes a cost issue.
Realistically a team is going to need a minimum of 2 sets and more than likely will have 3-5 sets of tethers. When things change and something else becomes manditory and teams must set those unused parts on the shelves people are going to start being frustrated with the process.
Honestly I dont have a great answer on how to make this safer for both the fans and the racers, but when you make something manditory that puts the drivers at more risk, thats a bad deal.
I am just curious, have you seen where the left front wheel, hub, and axle end up if the axle is sheered off at the left radius rod and shock mount with the current "approved" systems that are out there? 26 to 28 inches of tether plus another 12-14 inches of axle that the tether is clamped to plus the spindle, hub, and wheel gives you 40+ inches of "tetherball effect" from the radius rod downtube that lands in the drivers lap. That's not good!
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So, you feel the tethers are different than other safety features?
By the logic that you are using, the seat belts that were OK to use in 2005 should be ok to use now. However, seatbelts (as well as tethers, seats, firesuits, etc. are NOT a "we designed it, it's perfect and will never need changed" item. Heck, the vehicle you drive is enhanced yearly by the manufacturer (Ford, Chevy, Honda, Chysler, etc., etc.),
The tethers are no different. They designed something, they have seen what they can improve, made improvements, and now see more items that they can improve (it's a cycle that EVERY product (no matter what the product is) goes through until they decide to no longer produce it).
Will teams have to have multiple sets of tethers? Probably, but how is that different than wheels, wings, engines, tires, etc? It's not.
Are the drivers more at risk? I personally don't think so. The axles that I have seen that have been launched through the air could have caused more damage to a spectator, another driver (when the axle hit their car like a missile), or an official have far more momentum, speed and danger than one that is attached to a car that is wrecking at 90 mph and the axle is moving WITH the car at teh same speed.
If an axle is sheared off could it become more dangerous? Maybe, saw one do that last year and guess what, the axle stayed in teh frame rails (without the tether, it would have been launched out the side of the frame rails into the stands IMO).
Safety is a moving target, nothing will ever be 100% safe. Would you rather go back to no roll cages, rutty tracks and drivers getting killed while racing weekly?
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March 26, 2015 at
02:50:33 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RUEZ on March 25 2015 at 12:35:51 PM
While were at it let's tether the following parts.
Rear End
Jacobs Ladder
Radius rods
Torsion arms and stops
Wheels
Mud covers
Shocks
Headers and Mufflers
Both wings
Engine
Bumpers and nerfs
Then maybe it will safe enough to watch this barbaric sport until then I will sit in my mom's basement where it's safe.
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So are you a driver or just a big bad macho spectator?
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March 26, 2015 at
02:53:01 PM
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Common sense, make it safer. It will still be plenty dangerous with tethers
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March 27, 2015 at
08:28:36 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on March 26 2015 at 02:50:33 PM
So are you a driver or just a big bad macho spectator?
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I'm neither.
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