Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Well ,  after   watching   the weekend   races  locally  in  Pa , Knoxville  on   MAVTV  , IT  IS  OBVIOUS  THE  WINGED  410'S
have  to run   on  smaller   tracks   to  provide   good racing  for  fans . They   are  not willing   to change  or tweak there  cars   , so  I guess  either   down size  your  1/2  mile  tracks  or   fans  take   your money  to  1/4 --3/8 -or  4/10 sized  tracks  to see  good racing  .

So you are basing this opinion on one weekend of races you didn't even attend? In all fairness, that is standard for on here.  LOL

Evidently you didn't happen to see the size of the crowd at Knoxville and none of them seemed to be bored .

Well you should watch ALL the Knoxville shows on MAV TV before you judge. Then keep in mind, TV can only show a small part of the action. I love the 1/2 miles and go to Knoxville every week and would not trade that place for any small track in the country.

But since you only watched on TV I guess you never take your money to the race track anyway so they won't miss it.

  I knew   you guys   would disagree   but  i  do  appreciate   your opinions  . I   have  attended  racing  for  over  40 years , to many tracks  , so  I shouldn't have   stated  over  this weekend  of races  , ill  chosen  words . I have  attended Knoxville  many times  , I  realize   what TV only  shows  , and  I  know  Knoxville  is  an  event  as much as it is  a  huge  racing  event   , but  I saw  enough  that it wasn't  much different  then past  years .  Present   racing  can be improved  but that  won't  happen  cause  the tracks  are  packed   for  WoO  races  . But  smaller  appears  to be  better  to control  the speed of these  winged  cars  . 

Sick of some people ragging on Knoxville and the Nationals. I wished I lived closer so I could attend weekly! As for the Nationals, the format is set up where you earn your way to the front row. No inverts or gimmicks on the final night, fastest guys up front for 150k, as it should be! Long live Knoxville, Eldora, Williams Grove, and all the other BIG tracks. Bull rings are fine, but I enjoy seeing the BIG tracks too.

I would have to agree with your observation.  Almost all of the tracks within a couple hundred miles of where I live are 1/4 and 3/8.  I don't travel as much as I used to but I grew up watching racing on a half mile just north of Minneapolis that was called Twin City Speedway and later renamed to North Starr before it closed at the end of '79.  I like a good race on a big half mile but I don't get to travel as often but have been to Knoxville and Jackson many times.

With that having been said the best Sprint Car races I saw this year were the IRA Feature at the Jerry Richert Sr. Memorial at Cedar Lake, a 3/8.  We've got a non-wing class up here called the UMSS Traditional Sprints that run pretty much weekly at a little 1/4 that doesn't have a lot of banking called Saint Croix Valley Raceway.  The Traditionals run the equivalent of a B Mod motor so they're not big HP with blazing speed but it's some of the best racing week in and week out. 

I'm in my 60's and used to watch the IMCA cars at the Minnesota State Fair on the dirt back in the days when they didn't have roll cages.  A lot of the drivers that ran back then are all Hall of Fame legends but those legendary drivers never came close to turning laps as fast as today's 410's on a half mile.  I don't have stats from the 60's at my finger tips but early 60's Sprinters were probably somewhere in the 21 to 22 second range on a big half mile.  Nevertheless it was legendary racing that set a precedence for the sport we know today. 

The reason I bring this up is that there seems to be a lot of Sprint Car fans today who are speed freaks and not so much into the side-by-side racing.  They prefer their racing with the big wing on top producing blistering laps in the 14 second range but to me that is not all there is to racing.  I can enjoy classes that are a few ticks slower such as Late Models, Modifieds or limited Sprints like the UMSS Traditionals or 305's. 

This point could be argued until we're all blue in the face but basically I think it's a personal preference.  Some like the rockets on a big half mile and that's cool sometimes but I couldn't take a steady diet of it.  That's what's so great about having the variety in racing.  We can all find something that turns us on and spent out time and money following whatever we prefer.  There is no right or wrong here, it's what we like as individuals. 

Stan Meissner

I've seen snoozers on all kids of different track lengths (1/4, 3/8 and 1/2) and saw great racing on those same tracks too (all in the last 3 years).

It's not the cars or the speed, it's the track prep IMO.

I remember watching Randy Smith LAP THE FIELD at Burlington in the early 1990's (and that race had Lasoski in teh Forbrook 5 in it).  Racing is unpredictable, a great racecar starting up front is gonna usually make for a boring race (2014 Nationals for example), but a great racecar starting at the back makes for a great trace (2013 Nationals for example).

They all can't be barn-burners....

I agree Vande. Track size doesn't make it better racing. I suppose you could put 20 410's on a 1/4 mile and say 'Gee the racing was so close'. Sure would be, but doesn't mean it's better. I've only been going to Knoxville maybe 7-8 years longer than you have but the racing the last 4-5 years has been as good as any I can remember. I've watched YouTube's of hundreds of races on smaller tracks and some are great, some are close but still hard to pass. I'm just not sold on the 'small tracks are better racing' deal. 

We've all seen snoozers on every size track but I think generally speaking there's going to be more side by side on the smaller tracks and more speed on the big half miles.  We could go to Indiana for some non-wing racing and I think we'd pretty much be guaranteed a great night of action just about every time.  I like Knoxville and Jackson up in my area and have seen some great races at both tracks.  On the other hand I've seen nights where they all spread out after a half a lap and the race looks like a group qualifying session.  Playing the odds I'd always guess that there would be closer racing on a 1/4 or 3/8 but I've seen them spread out on those tracks as well.

If a person likes the side-by-side it's hard to beat those awesome Pure Stocks.  JK LOL 

Stan Meissner

actually, I was thinking Late Models, some of hte best racing I've seen over the past 10 years have been Late Model races....

P.S. Seriously one of the funnest races I remember watching as a kid was a Jalopy race on the half mile sometime back in the early 60's.  I bugged my dad to take me to the races one time when he didn't really feel like it and when we got there we found out that the Supermodifieds had the night off.  In retrospect it must have been early August and they had all gone south to Iowa.

Anyways the Jalopies back then were all pre-WWII coupes with the skinny tires.  They must have started 50 that time and it was a hoot watching them.  Hell, I have even enjoyed the smash 'em crash 'em junk shows that I photographed a few times.  School bus races have been pretty crazy too having to run from the darned things cutting through the infield.  The grandkids are usually in the stands for those kinds of shows because they hold small kid's attention more than the actual racing. 

Fun doesn't have a minimum or maximum speed or preferred track size.  If nothing else the cold beer tastes good in the campground regardless of the racing. 

Stan Meissner

Same here. I'm a closet Late Model fan.  Guys like Jimmy Mars and Pat Doar running weekly 32 miles from the end of the driveway with Brady Smith, John Kaanta and a bunch of others dropping in most weeks will do that to a Sprint Car fan.  I learned to enjoy them through osmosis and have made a lot of friends in the Late through my writing and photography.  My home track's premier event of the year the $50,000 to win USA Nationals is hard to beat.  I'm not a Sprint snob by any means.  Actually sometimes I get a little tired of all the reds and restarts and have to go out and watch a few Late Model and USMTS Modified races.  Absense makes the heart grow fonder as they say and after a few nights of Lates and Mods I'm ready for Sprints again. 

Stan Meissner

If by "no invert gimmicks" you're talking about the Trophy Cup, you are absolutely 100% clueless. Ask the drivers who race the Trophy Cup what it means to win that deal compared to a fast guys start up front race. Like Kyle Larson stated winning the Trophy Cup is a bigger deal to him than ANY other race in the country. I've been to all types of track lengths and bar none give me a bullring, they can't be beat for side by side racing action!

Cheers!

I go to Eldora to watch them run wide open against the wall. I think it is incredible.

The WoO race the other night was entertaining too. Blaney went from 11th to 3rd on the bottom. 

Attica is where I go for awesome 3 wide racing. IMO it is a top 5 local program in the country featuring 410 sprints, UMP Late Models, and 305 sprints on a weekly basis.

Adding to that, Trophy Cup has TWO separate races going on. The actual race, which starts inverted by points, and the actual race for the BIG money, in which the top point getters, who are starting at the back, MUST pass cars to make the big money. Every spot counts. If that isn't good enough for someone, I'm really not sure what to say.

A man just lost his life at Hawkeye Downs speedway in Cedar Rapids Iowa a week ago in a race called "race um & wreck um". He was racing an RV against other old motor homes and buses. I never have cared for "gimmick" races in things that were never intended for racing. Just asking for a tragedy. A simaler show scheduled for Farley Iowa has been canneled, thankfully.  And yes, that was Hawkeye Downs biggest crowd of the year. Which says a lot about how good their regular friday night shows are.

I don't think there's any doubt that the 1/3 -4 /10 mile tracks consistently provide the best racing, provided the track prep is good; 1/4 mile a little too small for sprints IMO unless it's very wide and high banked. You can still see some pretty good racing on the 1/2 miles too though and the speeds are incredible. I like them all. Variety is the spice of life! 

A

I heard about that deal and yes those things can be some real rattle traps so if they're going to have those kinds of shows they need to look them over pretty good.  Didn't mean to give the impression that I go to that stuff on a regular basis but I got roped into shooting school bus night a few times to cover for someone.  My son brings his kids out to that one because his in-laws live close to the track so it's more of a family deal than serious racing. 

As far as the one I referred to in the early 60's, those were considered race cars back in the day and were as safe as anything else out there at that time, Sprints included.  They weren't very safety conscious in the early 60's.  You had to be there.

By the way, school bus nights draw 10x the crowd that their regular racing does.  I remember one year we had a great field of Late Models lining up for their A Main as the stands cleared out after the bus race.  Now they give the Late Models the night off and run B Mods and Hornets because the people that come for the buses don't care about real racing.

I'm not down on the junk shows as long as they do a good job protecting themselves.  I don't get paid enough to worry about that shit.  LOL

Stan Meissner

+1  I love Knoxville and wish we had anything remotely like it down in my neck of the woods.   I also wish I lived close enough to make it there every week.