Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Just saw a tweet from Jeremy Elliot that WG won the lawsuit.

Even though they won, I hope they take a serious look at safety and upgrades to their facility (lighting, fencing (replace the bent up guardrail even), etc., etc..  I hope they don't use this as an excuse to do nothing to upgrade in the name of safety.

They just installed a musco lighting sytem about 5 years ago. I can't think of any fencing or guardrails that are in bad shape either. You people who think the Grove doesn't care about safety and upgrading the facility are off the mark. The place is kept up pretty well, maybe not on Knoxville level but better than 99% of the dirt tracks out there.

A

I do feel terrible that these types of injuries have happened to John and numerous other drivers and wish them all well. BUT , if you can sign the release and later it be not inforced we have truly become a nation of sue happy fools.

Nothing I would rather hear than a miracle over night and John could walk again tomorrow, and that is from the heart !

I know every week when I sign into the pits I'm on my own. If a sprint car runs over me in the pit area, I'm on my own. I know the risks and agree to except that risk. John has been going to the races most his life as a spectator in the pits, driver and now owner and signs away the liability EVERY week. For him to testify under oath that he "did not know" what he was signing was dis-honest at the least.  

 "They just installed a musco lighting sytem about 5 years ago. I can't think of any fencing or guardrails that are in bad shape either. You people who think the Grove doesn't care about safety and upgrading the facility are off the mark. The place is kept up pretty well, maybe not on Knoxville level but better than 99% of the dirt tracks out there"

Really ??? You actually believe that ?

Then you may want to attend a race at Lincoln Speedway, in my opinion the Taj-Mahal of race tracks in the east. If it wasn't for past history at the grove it would not be in the top 5 tracks in the area.

1. Lincoln Speedway

2.Hagerstown Speedway

3.Selinsgrove Speedway

4. Port Royal Speedway ( makes it here due the last couple years of upgrades )

5. Williamsgrove Speedway

The sharp angled walls are very dagerous.  The entrance to the track from the infield (going in to turn 1) has caused vicious wrecks over the years.  That opening on the backstretch is inviting disaster.

The steel I-beam supports for the bridge are just a foot or so off the racing surface.  If a car flips into those steel supports, the driver will die.    The bridge itself is dagerous.  Cars can hit the bridge when they flip.

For the most part, sprint cars themselves are making drastic safety improvements.  The tracks are the real issue.  Poor wall layout/design is a big issue.  Also, there are too many stationary objects for cars to hit (light poles, steel I-beams, unprotected concrete in dagerous areas).

With that being said, the best part of The Grove is that steel gaurd rails are used instead of concrete.  Steel bends and flexes upon impact.  Concrete kills.

Ben T

"If you're gonna run the bottom, you might as well get 
a real job."

the story:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/07/williams_grove_speedway_not_li.html

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/07/williams_grove_speedway_not_li.html#incart_m-rpt-1

OK, please don't come back!

I'm trying to come up with ways to keep drivers form dying.  I compose my thoughts in a polite, professional manner.  I don't bash anybody.  I even point out positive aspects of the situation.  

And that's what I get.   

"If you're gonna run the bottom, you might as well get 
a real job."

Don't let it bother you.  Some folks can't look at both sides of a story.  They must be wearing blinders in the shape of little checkered flags.  There are things to look at on both sides of this deal.  I don't think any dirt track should ever stand back and say all things are fine from a safety standpoint.  Complacency and thinking "we've always done it this way" can come back to bite them.

Stan Meissner

Everything you said may be true, and if so, drivers still have the CHOICE to race there or not. No one is holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to race at Williamsgrove, so until the drivers boycott the place because its unsafe all this babble on the forum means nothing, and by the way, Someone said Lincoln is the Taj Mahal of race tracks in the northeast and Kreamer Williamson was still fataly injured there last year. My point is you can never make a track safe enough to eliminate fatal accidents, but you as a fan can stop going to the track if you dont want to support it.

aparently not in this case Stan, You also seem to missing the main point here, if you dont think its safe at Williamsgrove, race somewhere else, but dont sign a waiver, race there, get hurt, and then decide its unsafe, thats BS, and the jury in this case agreed.

Can somebody with one of the major Pennsylvania instituions of higher learning contact whatever department of the University of Nebraska did the research for Indy Car and NASCAR safety?  They did a pretty darn good job of making big fast badass racetracks safer....maybe they can apply what they learned to help create a cost effective solution or even just a set of guidlines.    I bet the state of New Jersey could contribute as well.  (Google their auto racing specific laws sometime....fascinating stuff)  

There might be enough tracks close by that could share a small percentage of the research through the purchase of upgrades or "professional opinions" along with the insurance companies who all would undoubtedly benefit with reduced legal fees if nothing else.  

Am I just dreaming that this could be possible?   

Been there, done that Ben. Might as well talk to a brick wall. They are happy the almighty Grove doesn't have to do shit to make it safer....until the next guy gets hurt or worse.

FYI, been to over 110 tracks in 36 states....the Grove leaves much to be desired in terms of facilities,  safety, and racing.  From the look of it, a lot of people aren't coming back except for their cashcow Outlaw shows. 

You mean there are 12 intelligent people left  in this country and they were able to find all of them and seat them on this jury? Amazing. Truly amazing.

I think 'WON' is alittle of a misplaced word here.  While I don't know John, his family, or anybody within the Grove management this is my thought.

Everybody is a loser here.  

Awww poor Larsonfan no one will listen to your spiteful angry know it all remarks, I wonder why? I was at the grove sat night and the racing was great and no one got hurt, can you believe it? 

good points. One thing I've been noticing at tracks is the casual placement of a tractor tire in front of a right angle edge of a concrete wall. how about a bunch of barrels of rain water secured together or something. that tractor tire isn't going to do shit!

Follow me on the social medias! ; twitter - 
larryitis   Facebook - Michael Collins 

No 10. Two of the jurors were on Westbrook's side. The jury was divided 10 - 2. Which is all you need in a civil suit.

And if this was from ANYONE except you, it might mean something.

 But all you ever do is post that people from PA are knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing neanderthals, so it means nothing.

And no amount of snarky "if the shoe fits..." responses will make it mean anything.

You and your buddy Staggy can stick your head back in the sand (after you pull it out of somewhere esle) now. People bring up great points about what WG can and should do to improve safety, and all you guys can do is come back with your little grade-school, childish remarks.  Rock on my friends!