Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I understand the fair board is considering raising the 2013 season camping fees to $600. If the facility was maintained better (roads and bathrooms) they might have justification, but the roads have been bad for 4 years. I realize they will not suffer financial hardship if I don't return next year, someone may take my camping space, but I also don,t have to spend my money there.

My personal opinion would be this. $600 for the entire season is extremely cheap as far as camping goes (April -- September). Camping at any other local campground (Marion County Park, Corp of Engineers campgrounds around the lake) run $10 per night (only matters that your camper is there, not people) and you camper has to move every 2 weeks and you can't camp for over 30 days without a 2 week break if I remember correctly.

If you camp for the season only @ Knoxville, you are looking at April 14-Aug 25th (that's 134 days), if you stay until after the Late Model Nationals (or arrive earlier than the opening night, it could be up to 170 days)). Going by the $10 figure I put above, you'd be looking at $1340 -- $1700 in camping fees (plus you'd have to move your camper multiple times) over the same time period.

Are the roads/bathrooms a $700-1100 inconvenience for you?? To me that is the question I'd ask myself.

If you've complained to John (i think that's his name) that takes care of things out there? If you have, but haven't gotten any response or it hasn't been resolved to your satisfaction, take it higher up the chain of command (I believe that would be Toby Kruse these days, as he's the general manager). If you haven't complained to John, how does anyone know that you aren't satisfied??

I hear what you are saying but that is not the point here. Make them prove that they can maintain the place before they come with their hand out asking for an increase. Also, John may not be there next year.

I guess you missed the overall point though. If John wasn't (or isn't) addressing your concerns, you need to go to the next level of management. If you've asked him time and again with no results, maybe he's not telling anyone, did you ever think that could be the case?

The other point you've missed is that you get what you pay for, you are paying 1/2 of what it would cost in another campground in the area. If you pay $50 for a hotel room, do you expect the same service, cleanliness and overall maintenance as a $110-140 hotel room?? I sure don't expect the same level. (But I wouldn't stay in a $50 a night hotel anyway).

I'll repeat if for those that didn't read it the first two times.

If you've had concerns that you've voiced to the campground manager (John), but he did nothing about them or they haven't been addressed, why aren't you taking it up the chain of command to his boss??

Obviously you haven't (yet), you just expect to tell John again when you are at the campground this weekend and expect change when the last times you have asked nothing has been done.

Another point, you are confusing REVENUE with Income, the $$ figures you are quoting are REVENUE, not income. The Raceway is a FOR PROFIT business that has to pay a multitude of taxes (payroll, sales, local option sales tax, property (that campground is NOT tax exempt), plus they have to pay the bills (insurance, water, electricity). My guess is that the north campgound (outside of Nationals week) barely breaks even at best and more than likely loses $$ on the weekly races.

People continue to amaze me when they confuse REVENUE with profit, I guess you forget that where ever it is you work pays you $20 per hour (I'll just use a flat figure for illustration purposes), but at the end of the year, you're lucky if you actually took home $12-13 per hour (after your portion of taxes, insurance, etc.). Businesses are no different, they have the GROSS REVENUE of the $600 per camping spot, but then they have the expenses that go along with it (electric bill, water bill, property taxes, payroll taxes for employees, maintenance (mowing/cleaning bathrooms and yes, I realize that you mow around your camper, they only mow the open spaces).

If you are complaining so much, why aren't you camping @ Red Rock or Marion County Park instead.....oh, maybe it's because it would cost you 3 times as much $$ and you couldn't leave your camper in one spot for the entire season...

The increase in camping cost was done to help pay for the UPGRADES everyone wants. If you think about it $100 is a small amount to increase for seasonal camping. The MCFA is planning on working on the electrical system and especially the 50 amp service. The roads do need some gravel and the bathrooms are being taken care of now. They are also considering hiring someone to oversee the campgrounds. All of these items take alot of money. The water, and electric bills are very big for the campground also especially when people fill swimming pools, wash cars, leave AC run, sprinkle lawns, and have freezers running. It also cost more to operate when people stay Monday through Thursday using water and electricity that has not been budgeted for. MCFA hopes to improve the camping experience at the north campgrounds but it will take time and money, Two things no one has enough of!

$600 is still cheap for 5 months. And obviously the demand is there for campers. There's more people camping in the back lots than ever.

Eric Arnold
Social Media Manager & Track Historian
Knoxville Raceway

Well said Dan.

It never ceases to amaze me that everyone thinks the Racetrack / Marion County Fair Association is raking in the profits, no one on this message board must actually WORK at a business or be self employed. If they actually used common sense and thought about how profit margins are small for their place of business (most retail stores like Wal-Mart and Target make 10% or less in GROSS profit and their at the high end of the profit scale for most businesses in this country).

I personally like what I have seen thus far under the new general manager (Toby Kruse) at the Raceway. He took on an impossible job of handling upgrades to infrastructure (bathrooms / campground), maintaining the on-track product, managing 150-200 employees (many of which are set in their ways or were unfriendly in the past), making the conscession lines quicker, being a good community citizen (doing what it takes to get noise reduced, races to start on time and end at a decent hour), working with the City, etc..

All the while he has 24 fairboard members that more than likely have 24 different ideas as to what should be worked on (could any of you work for 24 bosses???). Thankfully the fairboard instituted a new management style and he only has to report to 4 Fairboard members (the other 20 have to take their concerns to them and they take them to Toby).

In my opinion (as a born and raised resident of Knoxville), I hope that the Fairboard gives Toby at least 5 years to implement his ideas/changes. I think that we will be looking at a SOLD OUT Nationals in the near future as well as HUGE crowds for weekly racing (and maybe an upgraded County Fair).

I have seen nothing but positive changes @ Knoxville this year (and continue to see NEW upgrades and changes WEEKLY). That tells me that the culture @ the Raceway and Fairboard is changing. Seems they are starting to realize that you can't just open the doors and expect people to show up.

Upgrades I have personnally seen thus far in 2012:

Upgraded men's restrooms to urinals

New Soap and Towel dispensers in men's restrooms (just 2 weeks ago)

Black poles/crossbars painted white for visibility under grandstand

Bottled pop only in concessions (speeds up the lines considerably) - I like fountain better, but I can run down, grab something and not miss any races now

Nametags on employees (you now know 100% if they work for the Racetrack if you have an issue)

Starting on time (this is HUGE to me, until the recent 100 degree hotstreak, races were starting @ 6:45 EVERY night)

New sign by highway (24 hours a day, they are advertising their product to people driving by, they never were before)

Partnering with charities (Relay for Life, JDRF, HCI Services) - opens up doors to new opportunities to bring in fans (I personally was involved with the JDRF night, we had people attend that lived in DesMoines that had NEVER been to Knoxville, let alone the races, they came because it supported JDRF was involved. Many of those said they had a GREAT time and would come down and attend more races in the future (without the JDRF connection, they wouldn't have ever tried it out)).

Apps for Droid and i-phone for line-ups

Text updates for cancellations, delays, etc.

Suggestions for future upgrades:

Ability to use Debit cards @ Concession stands / tickets (maybe partner with DWOLLA from DesMoines as a test location (they charge $0.25 per transaction instead of 3% of bill like the credit card companies do)). The more user friendly you are, the more people will attend (and spend $$)

3 Entrances to grandstands during Nationals (currently have 2) - central (current), East (used during Nationals only), and new one at the West End

Upgraded bands/concerts during Nationals. If it becomes part of the experience, you get those fringe fans to attend.

Change to 1 price ticket for Nationals (do away with children's tickets), will allow you to LOWER ticket prices for adults and maybe sway some of those that left to come back by saving $10-15 for the week.

No need to fight, I thought we got that out of our systems when we were younger!

There's always going to be decisions I don't personally agree with, but I try to keep an open mind about why those decisions were made (it's not my $$ being spent).

Perfect example of that is the bottled soda. I'd rather drink fountain soda and would purchase if it's available, but from a concession standpoint, it bogged down the lines and people missed what they were paying for (the races). So the change overall was for the better (I don't drink as much soda as a used to, but maybe it's because I'm nearing 40 and realize I need to eat/drink better and exercise more) because the lines move quicker, people see that and will purchase more or come down more often than they used to.

Good changes have been made on all accounts thus far.

I think you have it backwards. Complete the upgrades before you ask for an increase. $600 wouldn't be an issue if the facility was maintained. Don't come to your paying customers with your hand out promising to make improvements later. You don't need to hire someone full time to monitor air conditioners. Walk through the campground and unplug the camper from the electrical box if it's running in the middle of the week. I don't see a problem with your neighbor turning it on a couple of hours before you arrive. Are you allowing those Monday through Thursday people to stay for no additional charge? Reads the rules you have allready distributed.

I agree with the improvements at the track listed previously. I think we all need to figure out how to get more people it the grandstand on Saturday nights.

Dan,

Sounds to me like you guys have a plan and are out in front of this if you are presenting this at Nationals time instead of waiting until year end (which I'm guessing was the old process). Sounds to me like things are being evaluated ahead of time and the board is being proactive as opposed to reactive (which seemed to be the case in the not so distant past).

Looking forward to the next couple of weeks as well as the continued improvements that are being made now (as well as planned for in the future).

Amen!