I know it's been said before but this might be the biggest threat the outlaws have ever faced. The high limits merging or acquiring the allstars is huge

Is it really? 2005 was bigger in my eyes because they took all the top stars with the exception of a couple and there were rumors of a Nascar link. Plus Ted was gone and the ownership of the WoO was in limbo.

The All Stars are not even close to the level of the WoO and High Limit is supposed to be a midweek deal. Even if you put them together what do you have? Is the idea that a bunch of guys would follow that "tour?"

Now if Flo puts some money into it and tries to compete for dates, tracks and drivers then it's yet another split which weakened the sport the last time. But the outlaws are much stronger this time around. 

FYI there has been a lot of speculation that Stewart was selling the All Stars and that HL would merge under a Flo banner to create one series. Nothing has been confirmed but you hear it more and more, news even reached Connecticut. 

Maybe.  However, for this to dethrone the Outlaws, they would have to:

1.  Establish a nationwide 70-90 race, nationwide schedule

2.  Establish a list of drivers committed to the series so they could advertise these drivers at said tracks

3.  Pay tow money to these members and establish a point fund for the drivers completing all of these races

4.  Sign these drivers to their series so they have a committment, and establish a non-compete clause to assure these drivers are committed to their series

5.  Hire a mass of full time officials, general employees, and streaming service employees to travel the country from February to November.  

Sound familiar?  We already have this series.  Not sure why everyone is excited for one series to be replaced by another series that will have to be virtually identical to succeed.  

You have series A who doesn't allow thier teams to race anywhere except for 4 races, and race for the same 10k purse they have since the 90's. Then you have series B who doesn't care who races elsewhere and also races for twice the money for thier standard pay. You don't have to race 70-80 times a year to have a successful series 

Correct, you don't.  But a series like that will not dethrone the Outlaws then.  A series like that does not directly compete with a series that has all of those perks.  I don't disagree a series like this wouldn't be great.  However, in the terms you are suggesting, it will not be a direct threat to a tour that races 70-90 times per year, and pays tow and points money to its members. 

How 'bout something from left field? What would happen if you had a sanctioning body that didn't have to play all the money games? Let's just say you didn't pay tow money. You didn't have a big points fund. Suppose, instead of feeling you had to force racers to tow the line or lose out on all that money they might get, you put all that money into the purse? Then you work on lowering the cost to race. Stay in the center part of the country, east of the Rockies. Work in a big circle perhaps. Don't go back and forth accross the country. Have a tire rule that doesn't pay off a certain manufacturer. Why not any tire that meets a certain hardness test? If you made this the series where racers could make a living easier and have less stress, you should be able to pull in the cream of the crop.

Not bad but i wonder what sponsers would think of the concept. I think teams use the draw of exposure the Woo offers being the top series but I like the slimmed down idea of it especially the tires there has to be competition to these tire company's to make a better product.

Suppose I explained to you how the Murphy 25d sprint car team was going to race a true outlaw season, hitting 50-60 races this year. We'll hit all the big races, a bunch of the TV races, and we'll race with WoO, All-Stars, Hi-Limit, Knoxville Eldora, Florida, PA, etc. Imagine how excited the kid doing out internet promotional stuff is going to be. That's why you should have Parnelli Inc. on our wing as a main sponsor.

Haha yeah I'd probably get sued by Mr Jones himself for naming rights.

The HL kind of has some of your list already in place. I like the concerto of putting money through the purse.   Knoxville proves it. How many went hoping to just make the A main?  Most if not all. 

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

This is good in spirit but when put into practice I would see many holes. For one with everything you said one could just simply run their own pick and choose or "outlaw" schedule right now. All that you explained is basically what guys like Brent Marks is already doing. While it is a great concept and cool to think about taking all the money that a sanctioning body supplies in the form of tow money, rewards/perks, point funds, etc and putting it into a winner take all each race the issue then becomes who would support the series for the whole season? You already have a number of teams dropping from the outlaws and regional tours with the perks already and the point fund, have a couple of them have some bad luck and they will really drop like flies. While I would love the idea of open tire rules the biggest issue comes to tire doping with this. The little form of racing we do there has always been a lot of cheating when it comes to open tire rules and areas that have had them always seem to have reputation issues. I have plenty of harsh words about the tire companies that I will save for a later time but as much as it pains me to say, tire rules are needed unfortunately.

Really in the history of the sport has there really been a healthier time? The Outlaws offer a great point fund, race for the best purse money, tow money, they reach a wide audience. I just never have gotten in all my years that I have followed the sport why so many people on here have wished and hoped for someone to put the Outlaws out of business or have wanted other series to be bigger than them. The All Stars and HL series are great series too that have a different structure that helps grow the market. That is what everyone needs to be working towards, growing the sport. Not taking market share from the others. Figure out a way to make the pizza or the pie bigger as opposed to taking more slices out of the current one. 

Imo the outlaws picked the fight when they limited thier teams from competing in what was designed to be an added benefit for teams to make more money. The outlaws don't have Ana issue with thier late model teams race wherever they want

Picked the fight?  They give benefits to drivers, but in order to receive those they sign a contract.  If the teams dont want what comes with contract, dont sign.

Well said and so true.  people who think the WOO-zers are the only game in town need to get out more

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

I think the point is if you pay enough at each race, quality cars will be there regardless of tow or points. Granted unlike the outlaws it may not be the same folk at each race but your top dogs regionally plus the guys that have plenty of coin to follow it religiously will be there. So let your event stand on its own and don't hold them back from racing other shows nearby the next night. 

Open tire rules wouldn't mean allowing tire prep/dope. It just means more than one manufacturer allowed. You could still test for foreign substances if need be. In my mind most would still be on Hoosiers. The idea of competition is good and would hopefully limit costs some but idk how many other manufacturers would take on adding sprint car tires to their line. Maybe I would be surprised. I just figure one brand will be far and away more dominant and will be charging accordingly.

Only the Outlaws can grow the Outlaws. They do a good job with their brand but do little to nothing for local teams. It's a club and locals aren't part of it. HL throwing money back into the purse instead of tow and point fund gives the CHANCE to go back to a local team who can only afford to run a limited schedule. The thought is that grows sprint car racing. The WoO is worried about growing the WoO and rightfully so. They do a good job through Dirtvision. It's interesting conversation and I don't have the answers but certainly both sides have a different way of doing things. I hope both have success and I hope the Outlaws open it up a bit more (already did a little). Baby steps JMO

This board has been predicting the demise of the WoO for as long as I can remember. This News if it comes to fruition will no doubt continue that time-honored tradition....

No one forced the drivers to sign the contract. Just like no one forces you work where you are currently employed. We've beat this horse a few times, but the Outlaws and all the perks that goes with running with them, once, multiple times, or for the season is attractive and why you see so many drivers run the series.  Non compete clauses are nothing new. Again we've discussed this many times, but ALL the drivers knew this when signing the contract. 

There's a place for both series, I think the All Stars stays more in the midwest like they've traditionally done, and hit a couple bigger shows in Iowa, and PA. 

I also don't see the All Stars changing their name. They're the longest running seriers in the US. Competition is a good thing and will force both series to "up their game". 

Keep It Real

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I'm not advocating putting all that money upfront for anything like a winner take all race. Take all that money that would be paid out to keep 12 drivers racing at only your races, and spread it over the field. Would guys like Marks be more willing to show up if every spot in the feature paid $1000 more.

Tires- somebody plase explain that to me. If you checked that the tire was  a certain hardness before the race, and then checked again after the race, would that tell you if someone doped the tire?. 

For sprint car racing, I think we are in the cycle of "it eas the best of times and it was the worst of times". I think i saw somewhere that something like 1700 people have raced in a sprint car in the USA so far this year. And yet, the sport is ruled by one company that controls the 12 best and best financed race teams putting on a "show" for the people where the fastest (and best financed) teams that can buy all the same high dollar equipment race in a program that rewards being fast byt not neccisarily passing anyone. I don't know if that's healthy in the long run.

 

Ok, and what if there were a series of races on the West coast, far away from most driver's home towns.  With no tow money, or points money to hold them to the series, why wouldn't they pencil it out to just stay put and race for a similar or even smaller purse?

The only ones who really have the solution to this problem figured out is the WoO.  Any series, that tries to dethrone the WoO, but does not have a group of drivers exclusive to their series, will exist ONLY as a regional touring series.  No other touring series in the country is going to become nationwide without signing drivers to contracts.  Period.  Not saying ALL have to sign a contract to race.  But a certain number of teams will have to sign or you'll have the All Stars.  What do I mean by that?  I was at an All Stars show in Wilmot years ago.  3 All Stars, and 25 IRA.  That's not an All Stars show.  Now, hold them contractually obligated to the schedule, you end up with 10-12 All Stars.  

Any attempt made to "dethrone" the Outlaws will have to come with contractual obligations from a group of drivers.  No if, ands or buts about it.  Or, you will have nothing but a bunch of regional shows with VERY few drivers racing all events.