Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Bingo....  

Yes, lets burn down that evil WRG and start a new series that splits half the best into one series and half into the other. Do I pay for tickets and travel to see 6-7 of the best on any given night?  

Oh...and lets let them race anywhere they want so then I can really guess as to who "might" tow to Devils Bowl if the weather is a bit iffy in May. 

Yup!  

The flyer for the event would be great:

"COME SEE (MAYBE) SOME OF THE BEST DRIVERS IN THE WORLD (IF THEY MAKE IT) 

GUYS LIKE:

Brad Sweet  (Unless there's something big going on in CA and it's not worth the trip)

David Gravel (Unless Tod wants him to run a promo event in SD)

Carson Macedo (Unless he needs a break from the road)

Logan Schuchart  (Unless PA has a big 3 day race event and he has sponsor obligations to those tracks)

Donny Schatz   (Unless he decides to stay back in ND and run his late model and chill)

If they don't make it, you will see one of the best regional shows of the year!!!   BE THERE!!!!!!

Nope.  That's not gonna work.  I know the flyer won't say that, but it might as well...................................What kills me about it is, some think these top notch teams and drivers would be at your crappy-ass track in the corner of the country if they weren't contractually obligated.  The orginazation many despise, is the very reason these teams come to their tracks, and fill the stands.  Puzzling.  

What I heard at the nationals from someone who should know, is the purchase of the series is a done deal, all shows will pay 30 to 50k to win, and Flo is paying the majority of the purse. I'm guessing my Flo subscription is gonna rise....

Well, that will be another outrage!  How can someone raise prices on something.  Just pay a higher purse and keep costs the same...............................      (I'm being sarcastic of course)

If they raise then they better remove the commercials when you just log in for the evening....

I get what you are saying and I like the spirit of it but in a business sense I do not see it working at all. I don't think you would get enough guys to support this long enough over the course of a whole season. With wear and tear on equipment, segmenting the market, and zero guarantee to cover some of the expenses I cannot see a lot of teams going for it. I just keep thinking of the costs associated with everything and the rewards here do not midigate the risks. Especially when you factor in mother nature. 

Tires, I would love the open tire rule and I personally hate a couple specific tire companies for how they do things. Having more companies involved adds more variables into testing. Unfortunately I can see more corruption happening with open tire rules from backhanded deals being made, some teams getting influence, favoritism shown with a brand or two with a couple of teams and it actually getting harder for the local guy.

Those who are saying that it is also the worst of times need to give it a rest. This whole thought process that the Outlaws are this evil empire has gotten old. They do not "control" the 12 teams the 12 or so teams agree to run the Outlaw schedule and in doing so they get some perks to cover cost on some conditions. I hate to break this to a lot of people but this is not something that WRG came up with and it is not an original idea. The old AAA series in the 30's and 40's did this, Bill France did this in his promotion before Nascar, Nascar had it when other tracks held stock races in the 50's and 60's, and many other forms. It is the teams decision to run and I would go as far to say that many others would like to run it but they do not have the sponsorship to do so. And not necessarily passing anyone? Are we all wathcing the same races here, there is alot of passing at Outlaw shows and battles for position. Are they the perfect company no. As someone stated they may not help the local racer directly but indirectly their brand is more responsible for the health of sprint car racing than anything. If they had ceased to exist 20years ago the landscape of sprint car racing would be totally differnt now and it would be worse. I don't care if anyone disagrees with that point but I'm sorry the sport would not expand just with local racing in certain markets.

And even if it did and even if another sanctioning body end the Outlaws or does in the future, everyone would be on here and social media wanting them to be dethroned or calling them the evil empire who does not care about the little guy.

I'm not suggesting that anyone is going to overthrow the WoO any time soon. What they've got going on is their business plan and it's working for them and the people that like what they offer. What I am suggesting, is that if Hi Limit is going to be more than a one and done experiment, they're going to have to come up with a better business model. Doing the exact same thing as the WoO and hoping to borrow all the talent WoO has under contract isn't going to cut it.

I went to the HL race Tuesday at Husets. I figured I should see that group at least once in person. I thought I was going to see a Canadian racer win, which is pretty rare. Instead, Rico passed him on a late race restart. If he hadn't, all 8 races that night would have been won without the winner passing anybody for the lead. 

I am quite pleased with my fellow Canadian's success that night. Sure it wasn't the Outkaws but there were some real outlaws with quality rides and he finished a very respectful 3rd. 
 

as far as the HL doing what the WoO does and hoping to steal their talent, I don't think that is their plan. They may use the same format but the payout is double and they are getting 40 cars on a week night when the WoO often get low 30s on a weekend. Plus the HL aren't contracting hired guns to guarantee anything. The HL almost guarantees a Larsen appearance, nothing more than that. I think the HL plan is focused on the racers where the WoO is focussed on the owners. WoO is a business in a free enterprise America so nothing wrong their plan.  

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

Is this a real possibilty or just some wild rumor?

If so,can somebody post some real info?

100% correct.   For those of us that have been around for a while, we have lived this when going to a non-sanctioned race.  

The other grand fallacy in these arguments is that Kyle and Brad are running this series out of the goodness in their hearts.   Someone from Flo approached them with the concept and a lot of money to cover the purses because Flo needed the content.    It is Brad and Kyle that are putting their names to it and are putting in a lot of sweat equity into the brand, but the big bag of cash is not coming from them.

The question to ask on a HL/All Stars merger would be what value does Flo get from it because Flo is where the money is coming from.   Also, for Flo Tuesday nights are a great waste land of racing content.  What better way to solve that problem than to help create a new series.  What value does Flo get airing another race on Friday and Saturday that competes with the WOO and every other racing series?

To me HL has not turned out to be what I expected. Started off with 26 drivers committing and now down to 4-5 that have made every race. Yes, it has given some midweek nice paying shows but not all of those shows have made money with fans in the stands and car count has been light for some events. Nothing new in the event format or how the show is presented to the fans. 

All Stars started out with around 10 regulars and now down 4 drivers. I would say only 7BC and 26 are the only two teams that could probably take on a larger schedule. So not sure what benefit a HL/All Star combo would bring. Plus I don't see most tracks that run All Stars going to pay more money than they are now.

I don't see any of the true "outlaw" scheduled teams going to sign up to follow a series anyway. 

HL is great.  All star shows are great.  And I think neither should be ashamed of the product on the track as they are both good, quality racing products IMO.  However, I think many are wishing for something that's just not realistic.  They want a series to dethrone the WoO, but every formula they claim will work, has proven NOT to work if the goal is to dethrone the WoO.  As you say, regulars in both series down to 4 or 5.  WoO loses 1 or 2 drivers per year out of 12-15 because of the contract they have with the Platinum members. 

Where did you hear this?

Proudly supports:

Logan Seavey, Brent Marks and "Big Sexy" Brandon Overton

I definately agree HL will be more than a one and done experiment. They will be around for a little with their current model as it is not a direct competition with WoO or any other regional series. Running midweek shows when no series really does with the streaming backing is working out. I think if it were not owned by Larson and Sweet people might be behind it more but because they are involved it seems more people complain and cry about it for some reason or another. For years people begged for a series or races like this. Bigger purses, I specifically remember many people wishing for little to no outlaws, different tracks, etc. Since it has come into existence there has been a huge crying fest about Larson winning, no one doing the run from the back, Officating, Outlaws not letting their drivers run and then the opposite too many outlaw drivers, and now car counts. It is just their first year and most likely they will make it better. But I would say they would have to stick to the way they currently schedule with stopping at tracks midweek between the Outlaws schedule and a low amount. The car counts I have been fine with too. I get that some have been what 30ish but I look at the quality not the quantity. I have been to some races where 30cars are signed in only 2-3 have a chance. Other races 30 cars, 25-28 have a shot. 

The racing is the racing, I don't know what to tell people. There are so many factors and I only was able to watch highlights as that race was a little past my bedtime. I wouldn't have called the race a snoozer by any means. I was hoping Price would have held on but it seemed like there were great battles for the win. As myself and others have said just because someone wins from the front row does not mean it was a bad race. In that case I am sure many people would have been fine with Price winning from the pole, had it been Schatz/Sweet/ Larson eveyone on here would have been crying again. I think a lot of people's standards for what makes a good race has gotten a little out of control. 

Got a silly question it will probably take someone in their 70's or 80's to answer. Back when USAC and IMCA were the dirt sprint car main circuits did they have exclusivity agreements? Or in say 1958 could AJ Foyt race a USAC show Sunday at Terre Haute and the folowing Tuesday run a IMCA fair race at Davenport and it was no problem??

The worst president of my lifetime:
Ronald Reagan

I believe in the early days of USAC they didn't have exclusivity but they did later on, I remember a story where Bentley Warren was kicked out of USAC when he got hurt in a super modified running under a fake name. And when USAC sprints came to Pa in the early 70s locals had to apply for a TP temporary permit in order to compete.

Good thing there was no social media back then...................everyone would have thrown a little hissy-fit and blasted USAC

Eventually another racing sanctioning body was formed by and for those people tired of all of USAC's rules and regulations. That sanctioning body eventually morphed into something identical to USAC- but on steroids. Because there was no social media then, USAC fans couldn't throw a little hissy fit over the infallibility of the status quote any time someone mentioned change.

Weird, i guess i was correct.....

USAC was famous for not letting drivers run other series, it's one of the reasons they dropped so far in the early 80's.

worst president of my lifetime: Odumba and his diaper wearing frontman Joey Biden !  But you're probably a socialist lefty.