Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

On the internet, I often come across old paper clippings, Speed Sport news arcticles about race results from years past.

Found one from Wayne County Speedway, June 20th, 1974 or 75 maybe?  All Star Sprint race and Jan Opperman won it. Kenny Weld, Lynn Paxton, Rick Ferkel and Ralph Quarterson in that order followed. 

Some of these early to mid 70's races were 50 laps. The article says this race went 75 laps....non-stop. No mention of a fuel stop.  #biggerfueltanks  

I understand some people's frustration of the dreaded fuel stop.  But let's look at one other angle.  The bigger the fuel tank, the more fuel they have on.  At 7 pounds a gallon it adds up quick.  I am not bringing up the weight as a performance issue but rather as a safety issue.  You start flipping your ass off with an extra 60-100 pounds strapped to you and how much more likely is it that the fuel tank leaves the car?  Also, in the case of a fire you just have that much more of a bomb strapped to your ass.  In this day and age where safety is much more recognized I don't like the idea of bigger fuel tanks.  Back in the 70's they weren't really running wings either and back in the 60's they didn't even have roll-cages.  Did that prevent us from adding them to make the sport safer?  No.  These are my opinions and my opinions only, but in the long run we need to look at the safety for the drivers before we do anything.

Stroker, they did have wings back in the 70's especially these All Star races....but you do make good points. I don't disagree with you. More than anything, I thought it interesting how many laps these features used to be....75 laps is a long race! Even 50 laps is a long race. 

I don't know what they had for horsepower in the years before I was born but with todays motors around 1000 horse... you have to feed those ponies somehow!

What kind of horsepower were guys running in the 70s? It would be an interesting fact to know for me anyhow.

I do not think engines today are at 1000HP.  I think 900 hp is more realistic.  In the 1970 they use a wide variery of cubic inch rngines.  Everything from 283, 302,327,350 and 427 bigblocks.  I think everything from 450 hp to 600 hp.They used bigger feul tanks back then, 30-35 gal.  They did get alot more mpg than they do today.  A good 360 today on a big fast track gets about 1 mpg.  Back in the 1970 I would  guess 2mpg or more.  Please some oldtimer correct me if I am wrong.

I won't name drop as I don't have permission to do so but... I've heard numbers as low as a gallon per lap for a 360 at Knoxville. Yikes!

I don't get the uproar on the fuel stops.  Why is this such an issue with people?   I have never understood how the act of crew members putting fuel into a car ruins so many peoples lives.  Is it the greatest thing in the world interrupting a race to put fuel in?  No.  Does it really take that much away from your enjoyment of the night of racing?  Not mine.  We have beaten this fuel stop shit to a bloody pulp and it is the biggest bunch of whiney crap by now it's sickening to even discuss anymore.  Here's the fact:  the Knoxville nationals will have a fuel stop from here on out.  I'm still going.  Let's talk about something that really matters.   Wow.

Because some of us are old enough to remember when there was no such thing as a fuel stop, none, notta, zilch. 50 to 100 laps with no fuel stops, no open reds, no total "lap count" until a red, nothing but racing. It can be done again, but the crybaby racers run the sanctions today and until the sanction and track leaders grow some balls and tell the racers that our series or track runs "x" amout of laps with no stops or open reds and if you want to win, you will bring the equipment (and balls) to get it done, it will remain this way. That is why guys like AJ Foyt laughed at the Indy drivers who were crying over the Fontana Indy Car race. Do you want to be a race car driver or not? If not, there are hundreds out there that would be glad to take your spot. So shut up, stop your crying and drive the f***ing race car.

Change the pit stop to a fuel stop and you got a race instead of letting everybody change everything on the car 

I agree nebracefan. I don't like it when guys get to change a gear or the set up mid race.

I'm not an authority on lap times but have wondered the same thing after seeing Sprint races in that eara and have looked up lap times dating back to the 60's.  To put it in perspective, the legends of the sport never turned laps even close to today's 360's.  Take Knoxville for example, Brooke Tatnell's 2006 410 quick time of 14.407 still stands.  Earl Wagner's 1960 lap of 22.7 stood for 12 years acording to their website.  Justin Henderson's 360 lap time on August 29 was 15.805 and the 305's are turning 17 second laps.  That means that 60's era ledgends enshrined in the HOF were five seconds per lap off the pace of today's 305s.  Today's speed freak fans probably would get up and walk out if cars were turning 22 second laps today.  I started watching races around 1960 so I've pretty much seen them evolve from cageless to today's rockets and everything in between.  Today I'm kind of partial to non-wing racing but I marvel at how 410 winged races can push the limits of the some of the tracks to contain them.  There were a lot of reasons to hold the 60's era drivers in awe besides their rather anemic lap times compared to today's racing.  If the racing of the 60's had been boring tracks would not have survived and there would be no racing today.  We were thrilled enough by the races of the 60's to come back week in and week out.  The rest as they say is history. 

Stan Meissner

Poor argument.  So a sport that suits you, with no change is the way to grow the sport?  No one has yet explained to me why fuel stops are the spawn of Satan.  With the exception of "that's the way its always been" and "I'm old and Matlock will be over when I get home if there is a fuel stop". 

What's the only thing that I have to complain about with sprint car racing right now?  Listening to everyone complain about sprint car racing.  I have attended numerous races over the last couple of decades besides the Knoxville Nationals.  I have to tell you-when they announced in 2009 that the 2010 Nationals would be 50 laps long I was pretty excited.  20 more bonus laps of A main racing?  How could it get better than this?  NO one could possibly have anything to complain about with 20 bonus laps of racing right?  Wow.  Was I wrong.  Sounds like the same group of people that would complain about winning the lottery because of all the taxes. 

Every driver that signs in at the beginning of the night plays by the same rules.  They are all aware of the number of laps to run and the fuel usage.  All are aware of an open red flag if there is one.  They don't leave any drivers out as far as I know.  ???  All drivers are allowed to participate in the open red I believe.  ???   No one gets special treatment.  ????   Why does it piss so many off? 

Personally, I feel like I am watching 2 features back to back.  Look at it that way.  Does that make you feel any better? 

I will say once again "the worst race that I ever attended was still WAY better than the best day I ever had at work".  :)

Well said! I too like the 50 lap format at the Nationals, AND the open red.  For me it adds to the excitement and the anticipation returns that I felt at the initial green flag. Plus, rather than there only being five laps of racing remaining, there are still 25 (or whatever reamains depending on which lap is designated as the red). I go to and PPV a good share of races, but The Sunday after the Nationals as I'm driving back to home, I'm already looking forward to the next Nationals. It comes and goes so fast......anything that helps it to last a little bit longer, like the extra 20 laps, is certainly alright with me.