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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: filtalr  /  hosehead

Topic: Thank you Knoxville
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nodust
MyWebsite
June 10, 2007 at 11:41:14 PM
Joined: 11/26/2004
Posts: 3334
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I have been a little hard on Knoxville sometimes, but feel it is important to let them know when they do well also.

The races have been starting on the average a little closer to on time, thus getting out early enough so my body doesn't hate me so much.

The new restrooms and showers behind the grandstand are very nice also.

I really wish something could be done about the "special events" person or whatever their title, to get our beloved sprint cars back, and send the Late models to Osky, or someplace else that would appreciate them.

If not for Tony Stewart showing up, there was NEVER a crowd much more than practice night for the late models.

Keep up the good work, and give some thought to removing the late models from your schedule on nights that were formally sprint car nights.

Knoxville has always been the "Sprint Car Capitol of the World" why ruin a good reputation and a 50 year history by changing what has worked for generations.

Thank you

Duane Davis, fan of the year 1981, Knoxville Raceway


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Marshalltown, Iowa 

Speedbump
June 11, 2007 at 12:15:41 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1347
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How about changing the title to "Dirt Track Capital of the World"?? Let us fendered fans enjoy your playground too. ;)

I think momentum is growing for late models at Knoxville, they will never be equal to sprints but they will start holding their own soon. They've been putting on great shows and I think starting to convert a few more of the die-hard sprint fans each time. Even the Fuzzy the Cannuck said he enjoyed the last one. (of course he could have been loopy from his upcoming nuptials) Maybe Duano is the next convert.

I suppose they could drop the Harris Clash modified show during the fair though....I see no point in having that support division anywhere near a premier facility. It's kinda like racing Yugo's at Indy.



oswald
June 11, 2007 at 01:34:21 AM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1756
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Yep, I didn't buy my season ticket this year because they wanted me to pay for 2 late model shows to get it. Did that last year WITHOUT telling me the ticket included 2 $20 late model shows. If I want to see late models I have several tracks a lot closer to me that I can go to. And there are Friday night tracks I can see them at and still go to Knoxville on Satuday if I want to see both. I can only see 410 sprints weekly at Knoxville. And I used to really look foward to those extra sprint shows on Friday nights.

They could have had my ticket money for ALL the sprint shows this year in March. Including those that get rained out. I never got, nor asked for, a refund on my season ticket for rainouts. By insisting on putting the late model races on the season ticket they get my money little by little thruout the summer. And some weeks they now get none at all! Either way, they are not getting any cash from me for something I can see 40 miles from home rather than the 90 miles one way to Knoxville.



John Katich
June 11, 2007 at 09:04:07 AM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 730
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Just a thought...When the WoO comes in town for a sprint car event, why not run a rgular Saturday night 410/360 show on Friday? Then run WoO and 305's on Saturday night? This would give the locals a night when they can make some good money without losing a night of points racing. Then, those that wish, without penalty of losing show-up points, can race on Saturday with the WoO. It's also good for local fans and traveling fans as everyone gets to see their favorites compete.

I'm far from convinced the Late Models or whatever other "special" classes will work at Knoxville.



MSPN
June 11, 2007 at 09:08:03 AM
Joined: 11/23/2004
Posts: 3796
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That Late Model show I saw there was a barn burner, surprised not only me but a bunch of others sitting in our vicinity. It always helps when you have a guy come from 20th or more and charge to the front like happened that night, but there was racing for most positions and the track was perfect for them. Heck, I may be prejudiced but I said for years that the best support group I ever saw was the Thunder Cars at Lincoln Speedway in PA, they have never put on a bad show that I've been at. A good race is a good race, no matter the division. Take It Easy...



racingwidow
June 11, 2007 at 10:35:27 AM
Joined: 08/13/2006
Posts: 21
Reply
This message was edited on June 11, 2007 at 11:26:19 AM by racingwidow

 

Ah, This brings back a memory of mine....... Years ago,(like maybe 9....?) We went to Aberdeen, SD to race a "special" Sprint car show. My daughter was about 3 at the time and she wanted to go along so badly so I took her and went into the stands. This was the night I was introduced to the Late Model and I soon found out I was in" Late Model Country" I must say, I wasn't gonna tell any one of those fans that I was with a Sprint Car. They ran the Sprints before the Late Models and I wished that sprint race to be over sooner than what it was. The People at that track could hardly bear to watch the sprint race,I don't even know how they survived it! As my daughter was cheering for her daddy in a sprint car I didnt know if I should shush her in fear that someone might see that we were sprint fans... ( I felt like I was the only Sprint fan in the whole grand stands)I don't know, maybe I was sitting in a bad section, but it was a learning experience for me. At that time I thought everyone loved sprint cars.......I must say though, I enjoyed the Late Model race there. I have even went to a Late Model show since then.

 

Maybe this doesnt relate to your post at all Duane, But It brought back that memory of mine.

 

I wonder if they have "sprint specials" anymore in Aberdeen? I would go back to watch a Late Model Race but never would go into that territory to watch a sprint race. I don't think you should race Sprints and Late Models on the same track....... If that ever happens remind me to go to the bar before, then It might be ok....My opinion only, You may start bashing me if you please. I've toughened up over the years......ha ha

Knoxville? That's sprint car territory............

 



Speedbump
June 11, 2007 at 12:16:05 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1347
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Duane, comparing the LM's at Des Moines to what runs at Knoxville is like comparing the 305's to the 410's. The IMCA spec stuff is that far off. Different crowds entirely too IMHO. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't most weekly sprint shows also lose money for the Marion County FB?

John Katich
June 11, 2007 at 12:39:59 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 730
Reply

Duane, I hear what you ar saying loud and clear. I think we need more sprint car racing at Knoxville, not less. It will become increasingly harder to sell season tickets and suites leases when a sprint car fan has to pay for several Late Model shows. I wonder if this may account for a meaningful percentage of that overall attendance decrease we talked about a while back. Personally, I'm not very interested in supporting an event where you have to pay someone like Tony Stewart or Ryan Newman a fee to get them there. I think it's an insult to the guys that race every week...the rank and file racers. And I think it's an insult to the fans as well. Maybe I'm a hard-ass when it comes to this but I think when you pay someone an individual appearance fee, you compromise the integrity and credibility of your event and the overall sport.

The Des Moines Late Model racers aren't the same guys who follow the WoO or WDRL. They don't have anywhere near the budgets of the traveling series teams. Even have different rules. Kinda like they're 305 sprints as opposed to 410's. I think the thought is that, since it's WoO Late Models at Knoxville, the brand name will help sell tickets. We'll see. I think Knoxville will have more than 1,000 but less than 2500 in the stand Friday night. I'm more concerned about what this will do to the sprint car crowd. Knoxville had about 5000 at the April WoO show. I don't know if there will be many more than that, with good weather, this time. There neds to be URGENCY to sell advance tickets and I don't see that being the case. Maybe I'll be wrong.

Everybody is concerned about fewer and fewer 410's at Knoxville and around the midwest. Essentially, you are taking a night away from the guys you DO HAVE locally when the WoO comes to town. I think it would be great to have your Championship Cup races on a Friday and have the WoO come in on Saturday. What a great wekend of sprint car racing for the fans and the racers that would be. Maybe a concert or fireworks thrown into the mix after the Friday show.

I would like to see as much effort from marketing Late Models be used in promoting Knoxville's weekly sprint car program and, yes, the Nationals (410's), because I see that foundation beginning to see some cracks as well.

Finally, Duane, I believe your vocality is appreciated and understood by those who care about Knoxville Raceway, its past and its future. There are many long-time fans who likely have shared your opinions and have voiced their concerns by finding other entertainment options.



DonnM38
June 11, 2007 at 12:52:10 PM
Joined: 12/07/2004
Posts: 64
Reply

I'm one of those rare people that LOVE both late models and sprints and will jump at the chance to see either one.

Good business sense is knowing that you don't put all your eggs in one basket. I think this is the reason Knoxville is throwing the fendered fans a couple of bones during the year and trying their best to get the Late Model Nationals into the elite realm of dirt late model special events.

It's nice to see a constructive discussion. Some of the other message boards and their posters consider Knoxville a dump and wouldn't consider driving to the Sprint Car Capital of the World to see their beloved Late Models. :)



John Katich
June 11, 2007 at 01:03:17 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 730
Reply

I think the WoO and WDRL both have very good series with the top names in Late Model racing. The product is a good one. That said, it seems like people keep wanting to bury sprint car racing in general and 410's in particular. I, for one, refuse to accept that notion and believe that Knoxville really needs to work harder, in conjunction with other tracks and sanctioning bodies, to BUILD 410 sprint car racing and its future.

Everyone wants to have racing under an umbrella called "dirt track racing". There are political and financial forces at work to push this idea along. This is something that concerns me greatly as to the future of sprint car racing.



racingwidow
June 11, 2007 at 01:24:03 PM
Joined: 08/13/2006
Posts: 21
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: DonnM38 on June 11 2007 at 12:52:10 PM

I'm one of those rare people that LOVE both late models and sprints and will jump at the chance to see either one.

Good business sense is knowing that you don't put all your eggs in one basket. I think this is the reason Knoxville is throwing the fendered fans a couple of bones during the year and trying their best to get the Late Model Nationals into the elite realm of dirt late model special events.

It's nice to see a constructive discussion. Some of the other message boards and their posters consider Knoxville a dump and wouldn't consider driving to the Sprint Car Capital of the World to see their beloved Late Models. Smile



You know people that think Knoxville is a dump? I think I sat by them 9 years ago in Aberdeen.

Gawd. I LOVE Knoxville, Can't wait to get there this year! I better check the schedule though. It would piss me off if I drove 5 hours to my favorite Sprint Car track to find out Late Models were racing......

 



Speedbump
June 11, 2007 at 02:07:38 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1347
Reply
Speaking of T-Mac.... Last year they were trying to put him in a LM for the WDRL show that got rained out. Unfortunately the reschedule never worked. I sure do hope they revive that notion as I am sure that T-Mac (McCarl) vs T-Mac (McCreadie) would put a bunch of butts in the stands. I do agree that T-Mac (the original) is one heck of a "promoter" and every track could use a guy like him, but promoting a weekly track is a much different ballgame than promoting 2 specials piggy-backed in front of the most successful dirt track race in the history of the sport. (maybe second most successful, the World 100 could be argued as the most $ucce$$ful) I still think it is a matter of time before the LM's are accepted in Knoxville as they are elsewhere. I know nothing of the "behind the scenes" politics that you allude to, but I would bet that Bruce's motivation is the fact that late model races out-draw sprint races by a wide margin at Eldora.

John Katich
June 11, 2007 at 02:38:25 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 730
Reply

Eldora no longer runs its own sprint car weekly series.

Yep, Late Models are very big at Eldora. They are also very big in the southeast and mideastern states. They are relatively big in eastern Iowa and Illinois.

Knoxville is a sprint car track and has been since they replaced the super-modifieds in the late '60's.

What a shame it would be to throw forty years of tradition away. Sprint car racing has always been more exciting than stock cars/late models and always will be. There most certainly is a concerted effort by some people to "re-educate" the racing fan as to what "dirt track racing" is all about.

Sprint car racing has always been tough to participate in and to promote. Its higher cost and higher purses make it a target for those who are looking for an easier way to race or put on a race event. But, you know, that's what makes it special. If it were easy, everybody would be doing it.



3rdturn
MyWebsite
June 11, 2007 at 03:49:19 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 276
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Did I miss something here?? It was just a few weeks ago that we were talking about what the track needed to do......... I think the general concessus was that it should promote....Not that they are promoting the wrong type of racing they won't be around much longer... I guess I'm of the school of thought that if what you are doing isn't working it's time to experiment and see what does....I think nation wide there are more weekly 5k and 10k to win late model shows than sprints and my guess is that is because people want to see them....I love sprint car racing but I'm open minded enought to understand that the track has to do what it can to make money and if they want to have a DLM race so be it... We have a beautiful facility that should be used for more types of motor sports. Having a midget show is a great thing,it doesn't hurt to have the mods and I really think it's about time to have the AMA back again....This time in the summer, as opposed to September like the last ones were... If I remember right the first show had in excess of 10k people but I don't remember the second although I think it was pretty cold...

I do think that the track should make season ticket packages with and without the DLM show added, that wouldn't be that tuff to do and should take care of the folks that don't care for them..But, no matter what the track does it won't make everybody happy so it just has to be lived with and supported..



Speedbump
June 11, 2007 at 05:09:21 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1347
Reply

Some of us do not believe that the "quality" is being diluted by late models...in fact I happen to think that the product (and season ticket value) is enhanced by touring late models. "quality" is such a subjective term that I don't think it can be used accurately in this discussion.

One reason I am happy about Knoxville embracing the "other" form of racing that I like is that they raise the bar for everyone else. DLM racing is better off with Knoxville's involvement as is sprint car racing. Knoxville is the leader in dirt track racing and I am glad they are branching out. They might not do everything right, but they do far more right than any other active promoting group. (of course they have advantages that few others enjoy....tax status, selfless employees in it for the long run, etc)

Knoxville's weekly show is in much more peril from 410 racing itself than anything with sheetmetal formed in a certain way. Late Models will provide positive cash flow for the Marion County Fair Association in a very short time frame and I predict will eventually supplement the losing proposition of weekly 410 sprint car racing that I also enjoy very much.



John Katich
June 11, 2007 at 06:26:15 PM
Joined: 12/01/2004
Posts: 730
Reply

For those who continue to think 410s are a losing proposition at Knoxville (didn't we just have this discussion TWICE onhere in the last six weeks?), I suggest that Knoxville drop the 410s for a week and replace them with a 360/305 show or a 360/WDRL or whatever combo you want, then let's see how many people show up.

How long would Knoxville survive with 700 people in the stands?

Maybe it's time for a series like the All Stars or Midwest All Stars to move further west.

Nothing like trying to kill off the 410s and then wonder where they've all gone...oh, I forgot, it's too expensive, that's why racers quit racing them. Rather, I think, it's a matter of opportunity being denied for the 410s. Put a series of 410s racing Iowa, the Dakotas, Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas and you'll have plenty of cars when it's done right.



3rdturn
MyWebsite
June 11, 2007 at 07:05:39 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 276
Reply

It sure looks to me that there are some poster that are in serious need of sensitivity training… You guys just aren't bi racial enough…LOL !!



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
June 11, 2007 at 08:22:49 PM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 4379
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: nodust on June 10 2007 at 11:41:14 PM

I have been a little hard on Knoxville sometimes, but feel it is important to let them know when they do well also.

The races have been starting on the average a little closer to on time, thus getting out early enough so my body doesn't hate me so much.

The new restrooms and showers behind the grandstand are very nice also.

I really wish something could be done about the "special events" person or whatever their title, to get our beloved sprint cars back, and send the Late models to Osky, or someplace else that would appreciate them.

If not for Tony Stewart showing up, there was NEVER a crowd much more than practice night for the late models.

Keep up the good work, and give some thought to removing the late models from your schedule on nights that were formally sprint car nights.

Knoxville has always been the "Sprint Car Capitol of the World" why ruin a good reputation and a 50 year history by changing what has worked for generations.

Thank you

Duane Davis, fan of the year 1981, Knoxville Raceway



The way I look at it is that dirt tracks are multi-use facilities just like a stadium or concert venue and they should be able to book shows that appeal to everyone. The Late Models are very popular and a lot of us like both divisions. I'm thinking about going to the September Late Model Nationals and have set aside some vacation so hopefully I can make the trip. I grew up around Sprints but on the other hand I have spent many nights after the races hanging around the Fegers hauler. Justin Fegers was your Knoxville Late Model track record holder and he just made an exciting last lap pass to win at Eagle this past weekend. I'd have liked to been there to share a beer with Justin, Steve, Donnie and the whole gang.

This weekend is dirt track racing heaven here in the upper Midwest. Cedar Lake hosts their annual Masters featuring WDRL Late Models and IRA Outlaw Sprints Friday and Saturday. Thursday is preliminary night with their regular classes and 360 Sprints so it's three full nights of great racing. What other event can you muster the Sprint Car and Late Model guys around the same campfire?


Stan Meissner

muddy
June 11, 2007 at 08:45:20 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 450
Reply

Being a die hard sprint car fan, I didnt think I would like the late models at all but they put on one heck of show with lots of passing. Just nobody shows up at Knoxville to watch them.

 



David Smith Jr
MyWebsite
June 11, 2007 at 09:23:22 PM
Joined: 11/20/2004
Posts: 9082
Reply

Hey speedbump, "Bruce" and "motivation" are two very scary words when they are connected together in the same sentence.


David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

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