Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I dont understand why they hate on WOO and want them to fold

2 national touring series is great

I do prefer WOO because I don't really care about te gambling aspect, the drive rmusic list or the wheel and all that. Seems to much of an entertainment aspect than a race. i also feel like Flo would be likely to take steps to push HIGH LIMIT on a mainstream level and neuter it

I think eventually it'll cater back to WOO since there will be so many top havy teams in HL possibly there's a better chance to earn more money with WOO

Very online sprint car fans don't like the WoO. It's been that way since the internet became popular in the 90s.

Is this title correct? I've seen very little hate for the world of outlaws coming from the HL fans. The majority of what I have seen is world of outlaw Fan boys hating on high limit for existing. I agree with what you're saying about HL trying to make it more about being a show in addition to the racing than just focusing strictly on the racing. I'm  neutral on that I can take it or leave it And watch both series when I have the chance.

Have you ever been on twitter (X), or any other social media platform?

This is a serious question. 

Are you referring to Hoseheads posters or guys in the industry like Tony Stewart ?

Flo, Larson... someone is dumping milliions into trying to make HL the top dog,  Some are hoping HL takes the WoO out or takes them over.

I still believe that what would be best for the series would be two national 410 series - HL and WoO - with about 6 shared platinum races a year including Knoville, Kings Royal, National Open

That would be brilliant, but pride and greed will probably kill it

Based on the streaming numbers shared on the latest Dirttracker podcast, I don't think streaming is going to rescue low attendance at some of these shows, and in-person attendance is going to be needed.  There can't reasonably be extra per-race streaming money to share from some of these weekly, low-attendance races based on the numbers we've seen.  I would say this is why no one seems to have any hard numbers on how the entire charter system is going to work---because they don't know what if money is available yet to share with teams.  You say Flo and Larson are "dumping millions into HL" but if this is true, how long does one do this?  Flo may have an endless pocketbook in some of our eyes, but is it really?  Businesses like this don't just dump money in for pride.  Larson is not dumping "Millions" into this, unless his financial advisor is a complete idiot.  

"Some are hoping HL takes the WoO out or takes them over"----this statement is very true.  Unfortunately, if those people get their wish, it will be devastating for sprint car racing on a national level.  The WoO is who brought sprint car racing to a national audience, and judging by the eye test when turning on national events, the WoO is still top dog when it comes to drawing butts to the seats and it's really not even close.  

The last statement is not about pride and greed, it's about sustaining your own business interests.  If I'm the WoO, there is no way in hell I'm giving shared rights to those 3 races because I want my brand name on it.  If I'm the HL, I'm going to continue to fight like hell to get the sole rights to those 3 races from the WoO because I want that to drive my business.  I think the first premier event the HL will steal will be the 2027 King's Royal, and we will see how that goes when the WoO determines their schedule that weekend.  If I'm the WoO, I schedule an event against it on the west coast.  But that's me.   

I continue to watch both series, but I cannot get on board with the fact that this is going to work out to be a good thing and both will continue to thrive.  One series is going to drive the other out of business, and whichever series survives, is likely going to suffer financially.  

jeepers egras you've been reading my mind or what?  i'm going to do this in two parts first will be on your last sentence...

"I continue to watch both series, but I cannot get on board with the fact that this is going to work out to be a good thing and both will continue to thrive.  One series is going to drive the other out of business, and whichever series survives, is likely going to suffer financially"

As a long subscriber to flo because of their first market college and high school wrestling and having observed the multiple lawsuits in the power vacum of doing business....all i can say is i'm happy to have college wrestling available and happy to pay flo to do it----conversely im not naive enough to think flo is doing this alltruistically for the betterment of wrestling as the power lawsuits more than support this thought.

If and/or when the bold and underlined sentence occurs and there is no longer competition the survivor is not going to pay tracks more.....not sure why this fact in the world of capitalism is so hard to comphrehend.

The second part deals with your next to last paragraph....

"The last statement is not about pride and greed, it's about sustaining your own business interests.  If I'm the WoO, there is no way in hell I'm giving shared rights to those 3 races because I want my brand name on it.  If I'm the HL, I'm going to continue to fight like hell to get the sole rights to those 3 races from the WoO because I want that to drive my business.  I think the first premier event the HL will steal will be the 2027 King's Royal, and we will see how that goes when the WoO determines their schedule that weekend.  If I'm the WoO, I schedule an event against it on the west coast.  But that's me. " 

the WoO statement spot on and if wondering why i think this way ask the martin Floreni's (spelling) where trust in this world gets you......folks i love what flo provides and will continue to suscribe to both DV and Flo but to think they are the choir boys of alltruism is just a misplaced fallacy as can be said regarding Dirtvision.  i think dirtvision spread their wings to other tracks weekly shows to keep pace with Flo.....Competition is what keeps a capitilistic society in some sort of tow.

High Limit fighting for more absolutely.  If i'm the CEO of Flo answering to shareholders my folks better be fighting for some crown jewels......

I too now believe the dominoes are in place for HL and Flo to have sole possession of the 2027 King's Royal.  Counter intuitively World racing group would be doing their employees and shareholders a major injustice if they didn't counter in some way....they cannot support that show and give their major and in this case hostile competitor any more footing or momentum....unfortunately it will negatively effect the event because both series will not be together.

Egras your post and framework allowed me to put my scattered thoughts into place.

I selfishly hope both keep putting out events because I love sprintcar racing!!!!!!  I believe the second streaming service has provided the opportunity for the young guns to race on the racers edge.  Wow, Day last night was amazing bad butt on the edge......wait am I allowed to say that eventhough I slightly still prefer the WoO wouldn't want to give HL any credit........... see just dumb debate discrediting one to credit the other.

One final thought i believe both Flo and DV have motivation to keep their pencils sharp in delivering their product....one disappears i believe they no longer need to be as sharp.

We agree.  

In a perfect world for the fans, the HL and WoO do exactly as miledirtfan says and turn the majors into joint events.  Fingers crossed this would happen---but let's be realistic.  Realistically, as a shareholder in either, I would demand my series steal the show from the other series.  This is why we don't see McDonald's and Burger King joint ventures.  This is why Ford and Chevy aren't working together to maximize each other's sales.  This isn't greed.  It also isn't pride.  It's just @%#ing business!  

I will continue to stick to my guns.  IF the HL wishes to drive the WoO out of business, they will do so with a business model that all of the previous WoO haters will then despise, and all we will have done is a complete 360, and we will be right back where we started.  One series.  Too big for their britches.  Favoring their drivers.  Greedy.  Officials that come in and take over the track.  Too much time in the work area.  Yada, yada, yada.  Why?  Because overall, we're a bunch of whiny sniveling babies that can't have nice things......................

If the WoO was to fold then HL would be pressured as the sole surviving national series to increase their market share to areas they don't race resulting in an increased schedule.  HL was allegedly founded on the principle of giving teams free weekends and fewer races.  That would be interesting to see them stuck between a similar 90 race schedule when they became the only show in the US.  I have never heard what the plan is for that scenario or how they would even be in a position to take over all the dates that the WoO formerly held.  
There is room for two National series on the schedule but I assume that those calling for the WoO's demise live in areas where HL is racing or are watching them on TV.  They fail to note that on any given weekend when both WoO and HL are racing there are weekly tracks and regional series running all over the country those same nights.  Touring groups are the tip of the iceberg and not the only show around.  The Outlaws come by a few times for single and multi day shows, HL did one mid week race.  I mean, if we're talking TV only then it's a different conversation entirely and we're not sure how sustainable that will be in the future.  

Stan Meissner

Stan an awesome thought provoking post that has way more to unpack than a casaul observer may realize.  one thing keeps sticking in my small brain with your post for High Limit to gain full control imho and oftened pointed out by egras and even in this post yourself - HL would in fact almost have to follow many of the same practice of WRG and Dirt vision.....having watched flo from the ground level with wrestling may bias me a little but make no bones about it they are an international business for a reason.

If I remember correctly, was it not Brad Sweet that said that High Limit was formed to better sprint car racing??  Hmmm!?!  Does not sound like this is happening based on the moves being made and the discussion on this thread.

Ahhh that explains it. I don't do social media other than checking out a race teams page once in a while. Sounds like I'm missing out on a bunch of BS