Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I see Lincoln & WG have outlaws the QRP C2l birdcages.  I googled and can't figure out what they are or what they do or even if they are for sprint cars or late models .... any info out there?

I read the press release from Lincoln.  Something to the effect of extremely expensive with no real benefit-------so why the hell do they care if someone wants to buy them?  If there's no real benefit, and I don't want my budget to go up, I wouldn't buy them anyways.  As a rules committee, committed to keeping costs down, I would concentrate my efforts on rules that save the teams money because spending the extra money results in a distinct advantage--------not on something that doesn't result in an advantage.

I'm lost on the logic I guess.  Good news for me though-----I sit in the stands and go home each night with no racecar to finance or rebuild, so I guess let them hammer out the details.  

Ever gone down a rabbit hole? I went online to see what this was and ended up reading an article about the history of cages for birds. 

I read that press release also.  I haven't researched the offending part but have the WoO and HL banned them yet, and what is the mechanical advantge of this bird cage over previous models? Titanium, unobtanium, adjustability, remote control, what's the scoop? And the big question, how much do they cost? 

they should outlaw the ultralite rear axels that we have seen break several times.  They break and can cause other cars to crash because of it.  I read once that the axels should be replaced every 15-20 races.  That  costs money.

 Birdcages. It's all about pick up points of were your radius rod and Torsion arm attach to the birdcage.

;)

I finally saw a picture of them. What they offer is a spring loaded floating pin where the Jacob's ladder attachs.  This supposed to reduce binding as the ladder travels up & down through its arc. I no longer have a car but still have a keen interest especially in the technical side.  If I did still have a car I wouldn't want these at any cost.  

can you post the link where you saw the picture at....just interested...thanks

Agreed. I get the theory behind it, to keep the W-Link traveling the same arc as the driveline to reduce bind... but a certain amount of bind in that process is neccesary to pin the right rear mechanically. I dont know I like it outside maybe Knoxville and other fast, swooping momentum tracks. 

It feels wierd but I'm on your side on this issue, maybe..lol...There must be an advantage to these new birdcages, from what motorhead posted it seems like they are manufactured with an auto adjuster built in? Why bother banning these new parts when teams are spending 70K for an engine? Usually the outlaws set the rules for PA but I haven't heard if the outlaws have banned this part yet? Will the local PA tracks let the traveling groups use the new birdcage when they visit?

It'll be the other way around, the PA tracks will let their locals run them when the traveling groups come to town and wicker bill rules will be IAW the traveling groups for those races. 

I'm slow & old! Idk how to do a link but it was on aPortRoyal FB post   

See the post two days ago at: https://www.facebook.com/PortRoyalMedia

would be nice to see one mounted on a sprint car and an explanation on what they do with adjustments.  The ban can not have anything to do with cost as Smith Ti has ti torsion bar arms at over $1,000 each.

Linbob, your right, and personally I wish woo and HL would ban the use of titanium.  There thought process is you still need to cross the scale so spend what you want. I know teams are adding weight to seat construction to make up for it but costs are running wild with smith T1 bolt on's. I give credit to the Pa track owners and promotors at least they are attempting to curve costs. There hands are tied because woo and HL will never follow suit. Like it or not when the travelers show up the place is always packed. 

Sorry, but PA track owners attempting to curve costs doesnt pass the smell test here. If you believe that you are ingnorant.   It's an aluminum birdcage with a spring rod on it, I would be the guy might have 10K into R&D for the whole project and the selling price might be $750-$1,250 for the RR birdcage, hey it's America lets make some money if people want to buy it. You have guys building and selling $5,000 driveline packages, $1,200 torsion bars, $1,000 shocks, and $80,000 engines all within a couple hours of all of those tracks. Like it or not sprint car racing is expensive and monkey see monkey do, regardless of the cost. 

My guess is that there is a spring on it and they wanted noithing to do with it and it might lead to going down the rabit hole of all the late model under car "devices" 

My name is Jeff Davis and have designed,developed and will be manufacturing the QRP C2L birdcage. I can probably clear up some of the questions of teams and fans wanting to know about them. This was not something just thought up, It's been a project I've been working on for years with a lot of data showing what is happenng with the geometry of the rear supension on open wheel cars using torsion arms, jacobs ladder and radius rods to control the rearend. As everyone has worked around and tried to figure out why the torques tube binds up I've worked on the solution.

The jacobs ladder does not follow the circular arc of the driveshaft or the birdcage bearing center. Basically the jacobs ladder has very little if any arc at all. This causes the ladder to disagree with the birdcage and the driveline when in motion moving up and down, any one that has worked on or been around a sprint car or midget know that once you apply any weight to the chassis on either side the torque ball begins to bind up. Resulting in not letting the suspension operate fully.

With the new design I've worked on finding the correct spring pressure to control the movement so it allows the jacobs ladder to follow the arc of the driveline in a controled movement. This allows the car to keep its side bite while letting the driveline turn freely and will allow the suspension to fully operate and creat more grip. While doing this it relieves the driveline, birdcage bearing and right rear wheel hub from spikes of pressure those componets see with the current design when the jacobs ladder binds againt the birdcage.

As far as the ruling of banning them at certain tracks.

I was told last week that certain PA tracks had made a posting of not allowing the QRP C2L Birdcage. Their statement was the exact wording a top sanctioning body had emailed me when I went to them to get approval of the component before letting any team get one to use in competition - so I'm taking this as they sent the same message to the tracks.

I may note that the statement that it would increase expense is invalid since no sanctioing body or group has ever inquired about what it would cost or what price point would it be. Nor have they ever tested the product.

I've had several teams reach out ready to purchase but at this time I'm still building inventory and not ready to offer them to the public yet. I did not plan on anyone putting anything out there talking or showing the new design till I was ready to be able to send to the customers when they called to order. As I get everything ready there will be advertising and different styles for winged sprints,nonwing sprints, midgets and micros available.

Jeff Davis

Quick Racing Products LLC

Excellent post. It seems like the people outlawing them are over reacting based on little if any facts.

Or maybe they don't want the technology to get out of hand and price teams out. If you look at SLM racing and what technology has done to them in a short amount of time is kinda crazy. Tracks around here in CPA that used to run them regularly only run them once in a while now  Hagerstown comes to mind especially because small and regional teams can't afford to keep up. Maybe the tracks think their trying to save what they have.