Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

This seems to be a taboo topic, I know the tire shortage is causing an issue with PA dirt track car count (Lincoln affected the least), and I know gas prices are also having an effect on car count and attendance, but, imo, the biggest contributor to attendance is PPV. As a fan, yes, it's great, but it is slowly killing the sport where weekly racing will come to an end, again, in my opinion. Look at last Saturday, June 11th, the crowds were sparse; who wouldn't have stayed home to watch Lincoln, Port Royal, Ohio Speedweek, and Woo at Knoxville all in one night. 
 

The crowds at Port have been dismal.  I don't want to speculate on Lincoln as I'm not there often, but they look small on Flo (yes I watch Flo). WG attendance speaks for itself. Selinsgrove has been ok. These tracks must get a TON of kickback from Flo and DV because I'm not wrong in saying they lose money on a weekly basis (aside from All Stars and WoO)

I may be wrong because some have already scheduled time off but I think speedweek will tell the tale about people traveling to races for the rest of the season. I had a gas pump shut off at b$100 for the first time last week and I didn't drive much except to work for the week. Besides gas prices I had people who sit around me who rarely miss a race that stay home and watched it Flo on some of those cold night early in the season. I don't think the PPV money is enough to make all of that up.

That's actually good to hear about Lincoln. As I don't get there much at all, I didn't want to throw their attendance in there as fact. With PA Speedweek being televised by three or four different providers, in a round-about way, that should be a good thing for attendance. I fully believe Speedweek will have the crowds and cars, somehow it always does. 
 

So like DD always preaches, get out to the track whether it's WG, Lincoln, or Port Royal this weekend. 
 

But I am still against PPV unless it is on a race by race basis. Charge pit pass price and split it with Flo or DV. 

I guess I don't know what to think about tv but I do know . That the attendance at tracks is getting smaller all the time and I blame it on tv . This all started before gas prices went up and it's to the point now that tracks are going to close . I would not be surprised if one of those tracks is Jackson Motorplex in Jackson Mn . Tod talked about only having a couple specials this year but ran a few more and I don't think they've had very many people any race this year . So I look for next year(2023) to have a Woo show and that's it if that even happens. (THINGS AREN'T GOOD IN THE DIRT TRACK RACING WORLD RIGHT NOW)

Back to tires, for the 6th straight night, 40+ cars at Ohio Speedweek, and not a peep about tires. Do the All Stars have some pull with Hoosier?

I have to admit it's been pretty nice sitting in the air conditioning the last few nights watching Ohio Speedweek. I will however be getting off my ass and attending Waynesfield and/or Limaland. 

I'm sure with today's technology they could blackout the signal to locals and a certain circumstance around the event. It is a shame that locals can stay home but it sure us nice to watch racing 300 miles away.

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

Streaming services definitely affect the crowd count. As I have stated before tire shortage is not due to supplies it is due to lack of manpower.

thats great that fans like yourself support the tracks when you can. And to the other post I know the NFL has local blackouts and I totally get why they do it. I know Kutztown has tried it, wonder what their results have been. I am all for a 100 mile radius blackout, which would give out of state people a chance to watch tracks they'll never get to. 

blackouts for Flo and DV would most certainly need to go off of the location of your internet service provider which adds another element of difficulty. 

Maybe the shortage is all bullshit by a corporation that has no competition.  I haven't seen a team say we can't be there because we have no tires. The million, the Dream,  100+ cars. Yet if one of those cars needed a tire it was there. The all stars and woo sprints have a high diet of RR rubber. Ohio speedweek guessing has averaged 35 to 40 cars at each stop. Yea Hoosier you keep showing that empty warehouse. Let's open all the 53' trailer doors and see if there empty ?  Tires are magically showing up,  for 200.00 a tire if you believe there is a shortage you just mite be an idiot.  

The great gas shortage, the good friend I had said to show up 2 to 3 am and I could get all the gas my 73 Vega GT could hold. Sunoco told him he couldn't sell to the public because if he did he would lose his franchise.  Corporate America at it's finest, Hoosier is not the first and they won't be the last. They will never be held accountable.  

Interesting observation. From what I gather, Hoosier daddy can't supply enough tires for central PA this weekend, but will have enough for PA speedweek so maybe they are giving their tires to who they think deserves them, Ohio speedweek teams. Hoosier daddy was pretty smart by catoring to the tracks and sanctioning bodies to eliminate their competition. Hoosier daddy has lots of tracks suckling at its teets, the only meal in town and the smaller ones will suffer.

 You're only looking at the negative to the streaming services. There are people following and watching who may not be able to go to a race. I can tell you I've watched more WOO shows and PA shows than in years past b/c of streaming services, and at tracks that I'll probably never go to. 

IMO I'm following it more, and when it's in my area, I'm going! 

Streaming services aren't going away. Figure out how to get people's butts in the seats. Car shows, ticket deals, raffles, commercials, free kids entry, entertainment for the fans.... I could go on.

Keep It Real

       As foreign as this sounds to us race fans, if the track is getting enough money from the streaming service to make a profit, they might not even need a single butt in the stands. 

    We've got those issues too, in the building materials industry. I think what we're seeing in race tires is similar to what's going on everywhere. It's called allocation. Manufacturers are telling  distributors they can only get so much inventory, usually a percentage based on last year's purchases. The distributor or dealer then has to decide how to ration out what he can get. It's not a fun process. The end users that come up short squawk a lot about playing favorites. They're not wrong, but that's the way it is.

While there are a lot of factors that have added to shortages, I think primarily what you're seeing is the short-term, ultra-profit driven mindset of a lot of companies backfiring - and in this case, it almost has a cascading effect as in many cases it hit both the suppliers and manufacturers of certain products. 

Everyone wanted to emulate Toyota with Lean Manufacturing, ignoring the fact that even Toyota realized its flaws and modified it to be better prepared for the long-term.

Here's a fantastic 20-minute video that explains a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1JlYZQG3lI

There's a great quote in this video that kind of summarizes it: "They ignored huge swaths of The Toyota Way, and created a system that's less effective and less resilient, but can impress shareholders through short-term savings."

But are they that's the big question . If you listen some owners and promoters they are not. Case in point Jackson Motor Plex it it came right from Tod.  Glen Murra

True, but we'll never know how the numbers work out because it's not our business to run. To be honest, doesn't every promoter under the sun say he's just barely getting by? ;)

Gas prices & PPV work together to cut attendance.

If gas was expensive, but no PPV, more people would go, only way to watch

Cheap gas, & PPV, more people would go... live is SO much better

High gas price, & PPV, perfect storm, not as many travelers. I wonder if gas prices affect locals? It wouldn't stop me if I lived closer to a good track, PPV or not!

I have to drive 4-5 hrs. to a GOOD dirt track, only did 2 weekends last summer, mainly cause I have to take care of my 99 yr. old Mom. Haven't been to any races yet this year, hoping for a couple of Pa. Speedweek shows & Tusky 50, at least

I've been watching a lot of PPV, but it DOESN"T COMPARE to live!

One track I know of got around $1200 from Flo per race last year. That equals to about 60 people average per race. They are losing a lot of money per week at that rate.

Bingo on the allocation and it is pretty much across all industries. Raw materials are hard to get no matter what commodity they are for. In the packaging world we are still getting material based on July 2020 -July 2021 numbers. If your sales are more than those numbers now then it does not matter, you are only getting what the mill/distributor decides your allocation is. We even have tried to use other suppliers for materials but they don't want to take the business because of capacity and would not be able fulfill orders for their existing customers. 

I doubt even letting another tire manufacturer will help other than possibly putting a temp bandaid on the shortage. All of the tire companies are still getting materials from the same places and are probably under allocation as well for those raw materials. If they take on the Outlaws or All Stars or Sprint car racing in general, then while temporarly racers might be able to get tires from the new manufacturer, if the raw material vendor allocates you because they cannot produce for a variety of factors, then you will be back into the same position. If all of the tire companies have a total orders of 100tires, but the raw material vendors can only produce material for 60 tires then all will end up getting allocated. Whether its even or not is a different story. I am sure Hoosier is allocating to teams to make sure there are enough tires for the bigger events such as speedweeks, Kings Royal, Knoxville Nationals, and whatever other bigger races across other forms of racing. I would say those are more of a priority than making sure if a regular show in whatever part of the country has enough tires.