Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Notice I put "innocent?"

It doesn't matter what we think...........on record, he's innocent

I respect your opinion and like the optimism.  I just don't agree this is possible.  

Wrong on Lewis he plead guilty to obstructing justice and then flipped on his buddies and testified against them.

That can be a funny situation.  From what I've heard in the past, the contract is with the team but usually in the fine print the contract can be revoked if anything changes for example a driver change.  I can't remember for sure but it seems like back a while during a driver change a sponsor left a team even though they were under contract.  I think it was when Jr. went to Hendrick but I could be wrong, but I thought Budweiser was under contract beyond Jr's contract but since he left Budweiser was allowed to also leave the team since the contract was with DEI and Jr as a driver the contract was allowed to be broken.  I'm not sure if it's him though because lots of times the sponsor's contract will run with the driver's contract as far as when they expire. I'm sure there's all kinds of fine print that both sides can break the contract for whatever reason.  But I would think in this case, it would look kind of bad if McDonalds for example said they were leaving because Kyle Larson wasn't there.  My guess would be all the sponsors will stick around since they got rid of Larson.  That would be my guess as to why Ganassi first said he was suspending Larson then a day later with Larson doing nothing more wrong (at least publicly) decided to fire him.

I think most people think Lewis was guilty of something (Only a few people know the truth and I doubt any of those people are on this board).  But the point he was making was he wasn't convicted of murder.  But if other sports are an indicator, Larson will get another chance.  Ray Lewis, Ben Roethlisberger, Adrian Peterson were all accused of some pretty nasty crimes but their teams stood by them.  If any of them were players not contributing to winning games or backups would the teams have stood by them?  I think we all know the answer.  You can even throw Kurt Busch in there, he burned how many bridges (by being an asshole) and had the domestic abuse thing and yet he still got rides.  Would Corey Lajoie get that many chances?  But NASCAR isn't the NFL, it takes lots of sponsorship dollars and he's made it hard for any sponsor to work with him, so who knows.

Key sentence in there is "If he's saying it casually in a IRacing race, when else is he saying it?"  I don't think Kyle is a bigot or a hate monger, just guilty of either (A) Unconscious mild prejudice that many of us ignore, or (B) Casual use of a word used indiscriminately by rappers & "gangsta wannabes", that makes it seem OK to some people. Self respecting black people don't say it, & often criticize rappers for using it. A few folks here asked "if its OK for black people to use it, why not white people?" Perfect example of why its so stupid for rappers to use it, makes it seem OK. I answered that question before with, "You're allowed to punch yourself in the face, but not somebody else". I could have added "But its stupid"

The whole thing is a shame, Kyle shouldn't have said it, but I bet the owners of the corporations who dropped him live in all white gated communities. Race issues in the USA are MUCH bigger than an offhand remark by a race car driver. Its easy to make an example of him

Lets face it, we all wanted him to race dirt anyway, and not only Kyle but the whole dirt track community will miss the big NASCAR $$$... who knows what will happen to his team? I hope he eventually drives again on dirt, &  I suspect he will

If insulting your fellow racing fans makes you feel better about your golden boy stepping on his dobber I'm happy to be the object of your insults.  :)

Stan Meissner

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52274326

mistakes happen, even in your own organization.  

Thanks hardon.  You beat me to it.  Most athletes convicted of obstruction of justice don't get banned from a sport. 

Out of the athletes you pointed out, Adrian Peterson should have never seen the football field again.  I believe he was convicted, correct?  All of Ben's cases were settled I believe and we already talked about Ray. 

Peterson is one who definately should not have been on the field, and in my field Michael Vick would have been another. Other players in the NFL that have been arrested and convicted of felonies but later played would be Adam Pacman Jones, Kenny Britt, Chris Henry, Aldon Smith, Bryant Mckinnie, Albert Haynesworth, Brandon Marshall all ranging from DUI, assualt & Battery, drug possesion, domestic violence, etc. All were able to return to the field but as has been said the thing that makes it tougher for Larson is the sponsorship element. As has been shown, a lot of the sponsors in Nascar & the companies who were on Larson's car really do not have the most noble presence either, and I am sure there are individuals within those organizations that have said far worst but it is all about perception.

To me he is paying the price for saying the word and getting his punishment, but I am noticing that some people are starting to cross the line a little bit now. Saw where a Mets pitcher wants to fight Larson in the Octagon which is a little bit much to me. That is wanting him to play in blood and I don't feel that fits the crime. Losing your job and having to start over is perfectly fine and even having to earn some others respect again. But wanting to get into a physical confrontation is stretching it when I'm sorry, people have done far worst in society and were able to be accepted easier after the fact.

As I have said, I am dissappointed in Kyle for this and there is no excuse for saying it. But I am not going to completely judge his character or class off of just this one incident. I'll factor it in with the kid who spends an extra 1-2hours at a dirt track signing autographs for fans, and how he treats the children that come up to him. Everytime I have seen him he has treated everyone with respect and I think that should also have some merit and should be taken into account when judging a person. He owned up to it, I respect him for that, and I will have no problem with standing and supporting him. Do it again though........probably a different story

Justin Clark

14 hrs · 

So a bit of a long post...

I was talking to my dad today, Doug Clark and we were talking about the situation going on with Kyle and our experiences throughout life/racing.

As a couple of the few African Americans in racing this is our thoughts....

For people to act like they have never made a mistake in life is sad.

No one is better than anyone else but always ready to talk of others peoples faults.

People, maybe the sponsors, friends or fans that have supported Kyle during his career can’t differentiate between derogatory and non-derogatory.

In our opinion he is not using this towards someone in a offensive way at all and you can tell that by the way he was saying it.

He has apologized sincerely and you can see he feels terrible.

Sponsors have to make choices and hopefully it works for them, although many think this is the wrong choice it is their decision as it is your decision to support them.

We all have to remember it is human to error but what matters is if you become a better person through the good or bad times of the experience.

My dad and I stand behind Kyle and wish nothing but the best for him and his Family and cannot wait to see him racing at the track again�����

 It’s human to error, what makes it ok is if you become a better person through the experience 

To me, Peterson and Vick are the 2 that stick out on the list as "never should be on the field again."  Beating your child with a switch, on multiple occasions and running a dog-fighting ring are long-term behaviors and not split second actions or reactions.  

I don't condone those that are convicted of DUI, Assault and Battery, etc. but many of these offenses are due to lack in judgement and lack in judgement is part of the human experience.  It's what you do from that lack in judgement and mistake that makes a difference.  Adrian Peterson and Michael Vick showed who they truly are through long-term actions.  Ray Rice did something terrible in about 5 seconds.  If it was proven he never acted in this manner before, and it is proven he never acted this way again, one can understand why he was allowed to suit up again----though I'm not condoning the crime by any means.

Now for Kyle----this is what most are not getting.  Ray Rice, Michael Vick, and Adrian Peterson did not need sponsors to get back on the field.  And no sponsor is going to pull the plug on an entire team and risk NFL money when that player can so easily blend in with the other 80 coaches and players on the sidelines.  The sponsor is not the player's sponsor.  With Kyle, whatever brand is on that car is Kyle.  And Kyle is that brand, period.  So, comparing the crimes to a word means nothing at this point.  Kyle needs a sponsor and that sponsor knows Kyle is it's face.  Therefore, he will not get a sponsor again in 2020 for a Sprint Cup team and likely not in 2021 either.  He will be resigned to the small sponsors that stick with him on the dirt track for a while.  

I saw this on Facebook this morning.  It was a classy move on the Clark's part.  However, it really changes nothing in the short term for Kyle.  

Justin, I have been a great admirer of your dad for a very long time.  Although I have never met him, I have gained the utmost repsect for him as I have learned about him and the way he has attained elite status in the sport of auto racing.  The drivers (And there are too many to mention) have spoken in the highest regards of your father for what seems like forever.  He is truly an amazing man and I hope to get a chance to meet him someday.

I am sure, by following in his footsteps, you will no doubt reach the stature that he has attained just by following his amazing examples.  You are truly blessed to grow up around an amazing role model.  I know this because I feel I am fortunate enough to be in those same shoes.  We are all a product of our upbringing!  You can embrace the outstanding qualities of that role model and at the same time learn in hopefully those rare instances when things were not quite right.  You, my friend have definitely experienced all of the most outstanding qualities!

Your post here on hoseheads has really made me think about the possibility in human kindness and forgiveness in this day and age.  I have been a long standing Kyle Larson fan and have watched him many times at racetrackes in the northeast.  To say that I was dissappointed in this incident on the iracing broadcast is an understatement.  I have sat back and read article after article, post after post about this situation and have had many thoughts go through my mind about how I feel.  First and foremost, the hurt caused by the word he used.  As a white male, it is impossible for me or any other white person to understand what kind of hurt that word causes.  Using the excuse that the word is used by others in the culture is not a reason to use it.  You might as well use the example of just because one person does something than it it is okay for everyone to do that very same thing.  It does not work that way for everything.  Some people get it and some don't.

I was ready to write off ever backing Kyle Larson because of his use of this derogatory word.  Forgiveness, has always been something I personally have struggled with, but your post really made me re-evaluate my thinking.  While I do not know Kyle personally, I am sure he is remorseful.  Does he deserve all of the negativity and consequences from this?  That is for each individual to judge.  I just hope that the other hoser's on here can gain some perspective from the total discussion and especially you and your father's words.  I know that you and your father know Kyle far better than I, and if both of you can show forgivenes, there is hope for many others.  All the best to you, your father and your family!  Thank you for opening my eyes to forgiveness!

I was trying my darndest to not post regarding this as I think the whole issue has gone off the rails.. unfortunately; I don't have the ability to keep my mouth shut!

So, in my day (I'm 35 years older than Kyle) as a slang we called our "homies" and word that refers to their sexuality and would say it with an eye roll.. such as " omg, you f*g ".  Of course, NOT an appropriate thing to say and by no means did we mean any harm to our friends nor did anyone give it a second thought about it. Now; you would be hung for it of course.

Headlines in newspapers, on TV, all showing someone losing his and his families' livelihood. (Not questioning the sentence.)  Rapists, murderers and drug dealers don't get even a 1/4 of this publicity. Seriously?  Give him his sentence and let him move on.  Why are we deciding if and when and what Kyle should do?  Can you imagine what he is going thru right now? Some of you will say; "oh wah" ..  Compare it to you being laid off or fired or crashing your car or filing bankruptcy. Where the hell do you start?  Yes, he brought it on himself but it's done now.  Some aren't realizing the consequences and it's making me wonder if they weren't just jealous of him all along? 

Time to move on and spend your $1200.

Maybe I have PTSD from being a Tyler Walker fan but my biggest concern is not the mistake he made but was this a reflection of his true character/personality? 

Well stated and respectful.....  Thank You.

Just my two cents.....
(and I already know that it is worth a couple of pennies below that)

Kyle saying the dreaded N word does NOT make him racist any more than Jack Hewitt telling the flagman to KMD makes Jack a homsexual.    
(and to those who think the H word is somehow derogatory,  get over it) 

and I know that it doesn't matter to big corporations who think that they have to cater to every single person who gets butt hurt over words,  but it should.   

Kyle is a good, nice person.  Hate to see him in this mess.  It was wrong what he said but I know he is not a racist.  We all make mistakes, he made one.  If any of you are lilly white, let us know.  I have heard thar he has been informed by WOO that he needs to complete some course of action.  I expect NASCAR will do the sameI remember when Kurt Busch went balistic on live TV.  Penske fired him.  People said he would never find a decent ride again.  Well he is back.  We all have to forgive people who make mistakes.  Kyle Larson apologized in an honest way, and he knows what he said was wrong.  He is a good kid.

Um.........it's a discussion forum