Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

So I think I should clarify on inverts a little bit here.  For a WOO show, I absolutely wish that they would run a format similar to Knoxville's format, maybe not as aggressive (maybe only to 6th instead of 8th) but some type of invert.  I say this because these are the greatest drivers and I would love to see how they handle adversity and I believe that at the end of the year the best team is still going to win (like I said before).  I haven't looked at the points structure in years for the nationals but it used to be that the time trials paid the same amount of points as the feature did, so if the WOO adopted a similar format it's not like you're SOL for timing fast. To be clear, I know why the WOO doesn't have that format.  However on a local level I'm not as big of a fan of crazy inverts as the WOO.  I don't say this because I'm concerned about it being "unfair" but it's more about at the local level there's a much bigger difference in a guy who's the quickest and the 10th quickest, not just equipment wise but also experience.  So I don't like the idea that someone's third night in a sprint car they're going to lead the entire field to the green flag.  On a local level I always liked the passing points format.

But you completely nailed it on "perspective".  Trust me if I was a racer, team owner, sponsor of a car or a die hard fan of someone I would hate inverts too.  But especially if I was a team owner or driver I would hate it because it's a lot more work and you just have that much better chance of getting caught up in somebody else's crash.  But I'm just a fan and when I go to the races I want to be entertained, I love to see a guy search around the racetrack and find the fastest line and get through lapped traffic.  That's all I care about, I want to be entertained, I have no alegiance to anyone, I just want to see a good race.  I had wanted to get back into racing for years but I turned 40 last year and realized that racing isn't something I'm ever going to do whether it be driving or owning a car.  So I genuinely look at the races different when I go now.  But 5 years ago I might have thought different.

As for Nick, I don't think he's a bad guy.  But if he was truly smart enough to debate me he wouldn't have called for backup.  But thank you for sharing about his personal racing experience.  That's awesome he does that with his kis and honestly that's what I would love to be doing with one of my kids but their passions are not racing.  I'm guessing you guys are friends and we've had a few debates over the years and he probably thinks I'm messing with you.  But that couldn't be further from the truth.  You and I have had different view points on a few things.  While we have disagreed on things (But I agree with you on a lot of things), we have debated them and it never got personal, never did either one of us say "you're a fucking idiot for thinking that way" or anything like that.  Maybe you don't agree but you're one of the few people on here that I respect and have enjoyed our interactions (even though we usually agree to disagree lol).  If I ask questions about why you think something it's genuinely to see why you think that way, not to insult you but I believe it's always good to look at things from as many perspectives as possible.  Have a good day.

Same to you sir--thanks for the reply!

I actually like the Outlaw format now compared to a 6 or 8 car invert in heats based on time trials.  (no one has to agree with me, I'm just not a fan)  If they implemented something like the Nats, and gave points for qualifying, did a 4 car invert for example, and gave passing/finishing points for heats, and lined up the main based off of accumulated points, I would be 100% in for inverts!  I just enjoy seeing guys/gals trying to get every last hundredth out of their car on every lap they hit the track, and being rewarded for it.  That's my only point.  In a perfect world, every track would be wide and racy by feature time, and the quickest car would get back to the front anyways.  In the old days, I had a blast watching this happen.  As you pointed out, the old invert format still works in fields with big differences in speed, and because of this, it can still exist on a local level, and with other touring series not quite up to Outlaw level.  

Have a great day.  I'm heading to Knoxville Tuesday, and that's all thats on my mind right now!!!!

So I think I should clarify on inverts a little bit here.  For a WOO show, I absolutely wish that they would run a format similar to Knoxville's format, maybe not as aggressive (maybe only to 6th instead of 8th) but some type of invert.  I say this because these are the greatest drivers and I would love to see how they handle adversity and I believe that at the end of the year the best team is still going to win (like I said before).  I haven't looked at the points structure in years for the nationals but it used to be that the time trials paid the same amount of points as the feature did, so if the WOO adopted a similar format it's not like you're SOL for timing fast. To be clear, I know why the WOO doesn't have that format.  However on a local level I'm not as big of a fan of crazy inverts as the WOO.  I don't say this because I'm concerned about it being "unfair" but it's more about at the local level there's a much bigger difference in a guy who's the quickest and the 10th quickest, not just equipment wise but also experience.  So I don't like the idea that someone's third night in a sprint car they're going to lead the entire field to the green flag.  On a local level I always liked the passing points format.

But you completely nailed it on "perspective".  Trust me if I was a racer, team owner, sponsor of a car or a die hard fan of someone I would hate inverts too.  But especially if I was a team owner or driver I would hate it because it's a lot more work and you just have that much better chance of getting caught up in somebody else's crash.  But I'm just a fan and when I go to the races I want to be entertained, I love to see a guy search around the racetrack and find the fastest line and get through lapped traffic.  That's all I care about, I want to be entertained, I have no alegiance to anyone, I just want to see a good race.  I had wanted to get back into racing for years but I turned 40 last year and realized that racing isn't something I'm ever going to do whether it be driving or owning a car.  So I genuinely look at the races different when I go now.  But 5 years ago I might have thought different.

As for Nick, I don't think he's a bad guy.  But if he was truly smart enough to debate me he wouldn't have called for backup.  But thank you for sharing about his personal racing experience.  That's awesome he does that with his kis and honestly that's what I would love to be doing with one of my kids but their passions are not racing.  I'm guessing you guys are friends and we've had a few debates over the years and he probably thinks I'm messing with you.  But that couldn't be further from the truth.  You and I have had different view points on a few things.  While we have disagreed on things (But I agree with you on a lot of things), we have debated them and it never got personal, never did either one of us say "you're a fucking idiot for thinking that way" or anything like that.  Maybe you don't agree but you're one of the few people on here that I respect and have enjoyed our interactions (even though we usually agree to disagree lol).  If I ask questions about why you think something it's genuinely to see why you think that way, not to insult you but I believe it's always good to look at things from as many perspectives as possible.  Have a good day.

Actually it wasn't a call for back up as much as it was for confirmation. Several times on here people claim that they work on racecars or have worked for race teams but then you read further and most people can call out their B.S and they probably do not even know how to change the oil in their own car.  As far as the debate goes, I have no problem with debating but when you say a statement of mine that was based on personal experience is ignorant as if I have never been involved, worked on, or just randomly watch then I will go the extra step and attack as well. I do not just sit on the couch and watch these things. I work on my son's cars, I help a couple of people who have Sprint cars in the area (just as a helper nothing serious) since their kids are now old enough to race in a 305 division and my son loves being around them. All of us hate the inverts. Main reason is it costs us money for the false persception of "entertainment" for the race fan. 

While we were out racing this weekend, one of our friends who was fast in qualifying ended up getting taken out in his heat race because when he went to pass on the backstretch some idiot decided to change lanes randomly, and stuffed the kid into the fence breaking the front axle. Now to a couch potato that might be entertainment but to us who pay money for the cars, time, effort, stress we look at it as why is the idiot even starting ahead for us? We/they did not put themselves in that position, the track and stupid format did. And we do know for a fact that the guy who hit him is lazy and outside of washing the car they will not do anything this week to it. Last year for our racing we got inverted 6 times, 5 of those times a wreck happened at the front of the pack, and we got taken out each time even though we had earned our spot in the heat and should have started upfront. 2 of those times we actually got wrecked on the pace laps with having a car get turned into us. I had already hated inverts previous but those experiences made me double down on it

As for the Outlaws format, I like it. It is the only fair system out there. I am sorry that I am not sorry that a bunch of people who only have ticket admission money do not find it "entertaining" because the guy who is sitting 10th place in the track standings does not have a shot of starting on the front row of a heat but I don't care. Just the little traveling that we do is a mental drain, I don't want to imagine what the full time Outlaw teams go through. Adversity? Uhh no, the adversity of the race itself is enough. You do not need gimmicks or curve balls. If you qualify bad, you can still move up and get yourself a good starting spot in the feature from the heat race. Usually you can get 3-4spots per position an this has been proven time and time again through the heats. Just look at results. Look at how many times someone has gained 10+ spots in the outlaws race and look at how many races go to the wire. Again, I am not sorry that it isn't always the underdog, heck my son and I are typically the underdogs but I do not want to win a race based on an invert, I want to earn it. This weekend we did earn 2wins, the other 2 races we just were not good enough, someone was better. That is what competition is. 

Have fun, I've been trying to get back there for 5 years as my son would really like to see the nationals but unfortunately it falls on the time of football camp every year.  Should be fun.

Kyle Larson advances in every race He is in. Not racing for point lets him not play it safe and gives it 110% every lap . I think the talent level of the top 10 drivers isnt that far apart but the big picture is a factor.Rico advancing 21 places at 360 nationals is testament of his talent after poor qualifing still podium. The race at front had Reutzel won wouldnt have been the story.Everyone likes close finishes not runaways.Nascar had races in the 60S won by 20laps

Not just the 60's----the 70's were about the same with the exception of a few races they like to show highlights of.  Even in the 80's if was not uncommon for guys to be 10-20 laps down and get a top 10.  I laugh when someone references the old days of Nascar as exciting and racy.  9 out of 10 races in the old days of Nascar were TERRIBLE!  The new Nascar is 100 times better as far as the racing goes, and it's still not great.  That just tells you how bad it was back when Petty was winning by 20 laps as you referenced.  Everyone in 2023 would have been asleep in the stands.  Back then they thought it was fantastic and for some reason they remember it as exciting.  ???  

Peck destroyed that Pella car on night one

Dayum.....

Most times when a winged sprint car crashes-even on a high speed track- the wing gets wadded up into blob or flattened. This time, the wing looked like shredded aluminum foil after the crash. Is wing construction changing?