Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The heat race start should not have been called back, but that was a WoO call, not Doug Clark's.   For whatever reason they think the guy standing in turn #4 has the best view to see if someone jumped...

And they called it back because Pittman got a bad start by trying to play games with Lynton, not becuase Lynton jumped (he didn't).

Agreed. I am not really all that upset about Schatz starts but more that Lyntons was called back when compared to others in the night. I certainly think Doug Clark needs to be the only one making  that call for the race but I'm sure they don't want to give that control up in the cases where the local officials may not be a competent as other venues. Certainly disappointed Knoxville couldn't shine better but on to weekly racing and crazy enough Nationals isn't really that far away.

I don't think anybody here (except a maybe few screwballs) contests the facts that Outlaws are the best. And unless you could start 24 cars side by side, all formats are imperfect

Lots of us just like to see the locals win & basically we're just shooting the breeze between races...

But on any given nite, WoO can be beaten, thats what makes it interesting

Go Posse!

"They" meaning who? That's what my thoughts turned to. It isn't the WoO that's on their game, it's a select few. Schatz has 10 wins, Gravel 8 wins, Sweet 4 wins......equals 22 wins. There are 10 WoO teams with 0 wins. Schuchart has 3 wins,  Stewart and Johnson have 2 each. Rico, Parker-Price Miller, Ian Madsen, Kerry Madsen and Brian Brown all have 1 win. I am tickled pink that Schuchart has 3 wins......what the hell could he do with a huge budget and the consistancy of fresh equipment? Beyond those top WoO teams, night in and night out there are local drivers around the country that can compete with the rest of the WoO roster. It really isn't that much different today than it's ever been. On the WoO tour at any given time over the years it's been the same, the dominance has been among 3-5 drivers tops, not the entire series roster. I have supported the WoO tour like thousands of fans in the form of tickets, caps, T's etc.......from day one, and I continue to  enjoy the show yet today. Having a more balanced field of cars or a more balanced way of lining up races is going to remain impossible. That's just the way it is.

The WoO was a weaker group in retrospect in the early 2010s than at any other time in their history. 

You had some of the greatest of all time gettting older and losing a bit of what made them so dominant (King, Sammy, Dude), you had a guy at the top of his game up and leave full-time driving (Meyers) and you had some drivers who were in top notch equipment who perhaps didn't have the resume to deserve it (Darrah, perhaps even Mcmahan given how quick CJB has been w/ Gravel).

Now, you have Sweet who is finally getting good at all tracks, not just hammer down surfaces, Gravel, who finally has a steady ride and has shown awesome abilities, Pittman is having a down year but still can't count him out, Stewart, who has a few years with his team and is capable of winning almost anywhere, Jason Johnson who has some serious money behind him and is more of a threat than ever, and Logan, who on any given night can win. That's in addition to Schatz, who is probably on the Mt Rushmore of winged sprint car drivers all time. 

You bring up a good point about Schuhart. I wonder what he could do if he was at a top team like KKR, TSR, etc. That being said, do ya think Schuhart would leave shark racing if the oppurtunity presented himself? I honestly don't see him doing that. Shark racing has come a long way in the few years they've been on tour.

Of course he would. Big money rides don't come along often and a low budget driver would have to be a fool if they declined an opportunity to race on someone elses dime. You have to wonder how much longer that team will stay out there. When they went WOO, I believe it was said by Scruffy that they would do it for couple years or as long as they could afford to and the main reason was to get Logan and Jacob more national exposure to further their racing careers. They've competed well with what they have. That's for sure.

A

WOO has been beat 4 times this year and the season isn't half over. Geez I remember a period back in the 80's and 90's where it was a huge upset if they got beat at all and it usually only happened at the Grove.

A

As far as I'm concerned, Schuhart is still Posse!

Thats my take & I'm stickin' to it, not gonna argue, no logic involved....not trying to be objective

I don't know if you were trying to disagree with me or not?  But, I don't really disagree with anything you said.  I was just supporting J&J's post---the Outlaws--whether it is 3 or 10 of them---are cleaning up right now.   

Schuchart?  You aren't kidding!  Been impressed all year.  I was very impressed with his driving last weekend in Knoville.  Would love to see him in a big dollar ride.  (It might happen down the road too---who knows?)

All of that said, the main point you made?  "On the Woo tour at any given time over the years it's been the same"  True.  But, over the last few years the locals have been getting their shots in at them on a more consistent basis.  That is not the case this year.  There was no doubt on Friday and Saturday night who the top 3 cars in sprint car racing are right now!

Happy racing Blazer00

Were you there on Saturday? I was, and saw Schatz pass 5 or 6 cars by the exit of turn 2 in the dash. I am NOT a Schatz fan, but he can be amazing! So I think this thread is biased, the outlaws are suppose to be better than the "locals" night in and night out. Yes the locals do and can win, but "normally" the outlaws win!

The Crowd Pleaser IS THE BEST ever!

No, not trying to disagree with you or J&J at all. Trying to clarify my thoughts on who was doing the actual dominating, and my opinion as to why. I do keep seeing posts referring to the thought that quite a few more drivers are winning WoO Features today during a season than in years past. Last year I took a look at those stats, using each season's top 20 drivers in points, and the averages over ten year periods since the beginning really hasn't flucuated more than a couple wins. If I recall correctly, I think the averages have consistantly been 11-12 different drivers each year in the course of each deacde. Of course there have been a couple years thrown in that have exceeded that, but on a ten year average it's been pretty consistant. The ten year period 2007-2016 (inside the top 20 in points) had an average of 12.1 different winners a year. I'm sure there were a couple years where a couple drivers outside the top ten won features, but I doubt enough to raise the avearge above 13 for the decade.  That's probably the case in other decades, also. My point is, again, not a lot has changed. Every year 3-5 drivers dominate, and a consistant number of drivers in total win WoO Features.

From 2005-2016, WoO has averaged 19 different winners per year.  (Low of 16 in 2006, high of 24 in 2014.)  I didn't include preliminary wins from 2005-2007, which would've pushed the average to over 20.  From 1980-1989, WoO averaged 13 winners per year. (Lows of 11 in 1981 & 1984, and a high of 17 in 1980--again not including prelims.)

Thanks for clarifying the numbers for total winners each season. I had no idea as many as 11 drivers a season outside the top 20 in points won A Mains. As I stated, I was tallying numbers from the top 20 in ponits as posted by the WoO website. So that is a cool number to know. Still, the dominance every year is by a chosen 3-5 drivers with rare exception. And sometimes it was less.

With a high of 24 different winners in 2014, that may explain why the format for lining up heats was changed to the fastest  qualifiers, rather than the invert that was being used.  It will be interesting to tabulate the number of different drivers winning A Mains each year now that the heads up format has been in place. 

I was there and was sitting in turn 1.  My 13 year old son (who is also not a Schatz fan) turns to me after that move with a big smile on his face "holy crap dad".  Even I was forced to forget the number on the car for a second and just marvel in the move.  There was more than just horsepower the way he threaded the car through there.  

The only other time I clapped for Schatz was when he won the Nationals from the B.  Gotta give him his props.  I know, I know....he wouldn't have won it in the old days before it was 50 laps.  It wasn't the good ol days and the feature WAS 50 laps and he did it.  And it was very impressive.  

There, that's enough love for Schatz for one day.  Starting to feel icky!  :)

Wasn't the year he ran the B the year he took the lead on lap 16?   Or was that the year he started around 15th or 16th? 

The guy has been unbelievable on the final night of the Nationals for nearly 15 years now.  I noticed a lot more cheers at Knoxville for him this past weekend than years prior. 

There was a rumor that a bigger money WoO team at least discussed with him the possibility of him leaving Shark Racing after last season and Logan basically said he is indebted to Scruffy for now and he was too loyal.  Now I believe there will be some movement this off season (and possibly some movement here in the next few weeks with one team in particular ;)) so I'm sure conversations will be had again.  Although there are plenty of deserving drivers who would jump at the chance, being up and down the road and understanding of the grind of the WoO would give Logan the advantage should a big money WoO team want a new driver.  There's going to be a point where Logan and Scruffy decide it's best for him to take the opportunity.  I'd say we're pretty close to that point - that if offered a WoO ride with a big money team the time is right for him to take it. 

Last year (first year of straight up heats), we had 18 different A-main winners.  And again, the reason the format was changed was to make the heat races more meaningful.  At least now there is a reason to TRY to pass cars.  The fact is that passing in heat races (ESPECIALLY on bigger tracks) is difficult no matter how far back the "fast guys" start.  Cars are SO equal now that unless trafffic is involved where EVREYONE is in dirty air, cars out front and spaced out have an advantage. (Knoxville Nationals inverts 8 in the heat races, yet 7 of 10 heats on the preliminary nights last year were won from the front row.)  But drivers now make more of an effort knowing that a position gained in a heat is worth 3-4 spots in the A-main line up.  (It was tough doing dash draw interviews and hearing guys say "I knew I was in the dash based on my time, so when so-and-so stuck a nose under me, I just let him go.")  Transfer positions are also more meaningful now, since the Last Chance Showdown drivers now tag the A instead of potentially starting in row 5. 

I believe he took the lead shortly after the 1/2-way break the year he ran from the B.  The year he took the lead on about 15 or 16 was the year he had an engine fire on qualifying night but had enough point to start around 11th or so.  (I think anyways)