Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

A chance for double pay out why would the drivers be glad It was not being made up?

Still water in the street Sunday morning

Come up with 50 or 60 grand for the pay out and they would be glad to run the show.

Or is that had to do on you 50 cent  a week  

Races rain out EVERY year.  going back to the 1980's means that outside of Outlaw shows and the Nationals, EVERY race was a weekly race.  The track actually has MORE on-track activity now than it ever has in my recollection.  They run more "big events" that didn't exist.  They run 2 classes of cars that didn't exist WEEKLY.

Do you run-off potential CAR OWNERS and drivers in the 360 and 410 class in the future by cancelling their weekly event (305's) so a small % of fans can be happy that twin features got made up?  IMO, that's bad business and short term thinking.

I remember that twin features night also used to have all 4 features the same night, and the split that over the last couple of years so they could pay a FULL PURSE for both features instead of splitting the $$$ between the 2 features (which they did FOREVER).  That was one of the better moves, but the bottom line is you have to have enough butts in the seats to pay the purse (and making up features or running twin features (that are unadvertised, non-promoted, and hastily thrown together), don't put more people in the stands.

Currently there are 3 race weekends prior to Nationals.  To make up twin features you need to do it the 12th and the 19th of July IMO (the 26th is the week before 360 Nationals, car count will be up that night anyway and if season's past are any indication, they will do single car qualilfying for 360's that night), so you tell the 305's that they don't need to come back until August 23rd so we can have twin features made up?  That, IMO would be a very poor business decision and running them and adding more races to the night's program means the races get over later and you risk running off families (which is what they NEED in the stands to survive "long term".

As far as your re-scheduling an event that historicaly is very popular, I'd counter that with what about WoO shows?  They are popular (and probably make more $$$ for the track), and they rarely (and possibly never) re-schedule those when they rain out.  Why, because that means one less night for those that support the track all year long (ie:  the regulars which would be the 305's, 360's and 410 weekly cars, teams, owners and drivers).  (insert sarcastic tone here) But who needs them, let's just forget about them and then complain when car counts go down in a few years and how owners/drivers that used to come to Knoxville now go somewhere else instead....

I will make the motion to remove Brian Stickel from his position and replace him with Vande77. All in favor say "yeah"?!

wait...did I just read that "pissing off 305s" is worrying a front gate 410 track?

this is some good stuff here folks.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

take a look at the cars in the 360 and 410 ranks.  Some of them were 305 drivers and teams (that were at English Creek before that, moved to 305 and then moved up again.  A couple straight from 305's to 410's.  Some have moved straight from English Creek to 360's but very few and they probably would have benefitted from going to 305's for a season or two.

Hate to break this news to you, but I think if you did a survey of those that attend the races @ Knoxville weekly, that less than 20% get their infor from the internet, radio or MavTV (probably less than that % honestly).  Most go to the races and only listen to the radio when weather is an issue (to see if it rained out or stay home and listen to the races instead of actually attending). 

There are many that don't even know you can save $$$ off your tickets weekly by bringing a Casey's receipt or being an employee of Nationwide Insurance or Pella Corporation and they put that out there on the net for the last 3 years or more.  And say it on the PA system AT THE RACES when those people are in the stands.

You have to "build" an event up for WEEKS (and sometimes year to year) and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat it over and over on the PA every week for it to sink in before the "casual fans" realize that it's happening (and those casual fans are the ones that only come to Twin Features Night or the World of Outlaws or other special nights at racetracks, the hard-core fans go every week and it being "twin features" or mid-season championship or any other special promotion is a "bonus" as they wold be there no matter what anyway.

As a fan, I would love for twin features to be re-scheduled.  As a person that works for a large corporation, I understand WHY they wouldn't.  There is no upside to re-scheduling.  The fans that come weekly are still going to show up over teh next 3 weeks leading up to Nationals.  The "casual fans" that only come once or twice a year start showing up the last few weeks before Nationals anyway.

As a competitor, other than the payout, there is ZERO upside to running two features the same night IMO.  Twice as much wear and tear on your motor and if you crash or lose a motor in the first feature and can't start the 2nd it's like missing an entire weekend of racing.  You can go from 30 pts ahead of someone to 350 point behind them (200 points to win a feature and 15 for last and you get ZERO points if you don't start the 2nd feature).  350 points can mean you drop from 2nd to 9th (Justin Henderson is 2nd in points now and a crash and finishing last and not starting the 2nd feature could mean that Bronson Maeschen (9th in points) could outpoint him by enough that night to pass him (as could all the other drivers between them) -- all mathmetically of course). 

Now, it's great for someone like McCarl that is in the point lead to not re-schedule as that's 2 less chances for someone to catch him in the points.  He benefits from it being a rain-out.  Could it have bit him, yes, but he also could have extened his lead to where he could lock up the title before Nationals (and still could as he's 193 points ahead and the most anyone can earn in a night is 360.  He could have left twin features night with a 538 point lead (winning both features, quicktime and winning his heat and Ian Madsen timing 10th, winning his heat, running 2nd and 24th (kinda how he "lost" last years chance of winning a point title).

Do we the fans win on twin feature night?  Somewhat, we get to see 2 features, but all the drama of the season can be killed off that night too (how many season championship nights have lack-luster crowds because the point title is locked up?  quite a few of them).

If you want a car count 5-10 years down the road in teh 360 and 410's, yes.  Those 305's are the future 360 and 410 cars and drivers (most teams are "family owned".  When McCarl, Heskin, Measchen, etc. decide to not race anymore, their CAR goes away, not just them as they own and drive the car.  You've got to maintain a "feeder system" or your car count goes away.

I personally don't feel that Knoxville is a "front gate" track.  If they have 3000 people in teh stands and the "average" ticket cost is $10 (adults at full price, discounted tickets, kids tickets, free tickets, etc) that doesn't pay the purse as it is over $30,000 each Saturday night.  Even with concessions the weekly shows probably either break even or lose $$$.

Having said that, having and event and losing $1000 is better than having no event and it costing you $1500 to let it sit there empty.

"As a competitor, other than the payout, there is ZERO upside to running two features the same night IMO."

Super Chuck's head hurts.  He also thinks you need to talk to more competitors.  Show us a better opportunity for a shake up in points than twin features night.  Seasons can be made or broken when that many points are on the line.  If Super Chuck is sitting fourth or fifth in points, TMac is still within striking distance.  Remove twin features night...suddenly things look a little bleaker.  The point leaders are the only ones possibly welcoming the rainout, but those guys are also in position to make some serious bank and possibly cement their stake in the points race...instead of hanging out on the couch.  Seriously man, where do you come up with some of this?

Super Chuck

you act as though the track is going under without the support of an underpowered class in a full size chassis...and perhaps it is.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I do not think underpowered is a good word for 305.  The lap times they turn at one time would have been considered fast enough.  USAC for years and years had a 302 cubic limit and they even raced them at times on a 1 mile track.  You are correct, they are slower than 410 and 360 but to say they are underpowered is a stretch.  You set your butt in one and show us how underpowered it is.  Last year in the 410 National A main the cars were turning 18-19 second laps.  You would not know this from stands unless you saw the lap times from transponders.   Now look up 305 time trials.  You will see that they are faster than the 410 in A main but you never thought 410 A main cars were slow.

These people who knock the 305's turn around and revere the legends of the sport in the NSCHOF.  Most of those legends at least up through the 60's and probably longer (don't have stats at my fingertips) never turned lap times as fast as today's 305's.  ;)

Stan Meissner

Earlier this season, 17 year old McKenna Hasse time trial 17.390 (not quick time that night)

2013 late model nationals night 1 Scott Bloomquist time trial 17.430 (not quick time that night)

Wow!! An "underpowered" sprint car is as fast as the best DLM's in the country!! And some folks on here brag about what a great show those taxi cabs put on.

Chilly, I would be Shickled Tittless if they re-scheduled it.. I was looking forward to it.

Hey chilly. Let's not dispute anything Van says anymore - it doesn't work. K?

+1.

Your theories are a little odd, to say the least. I'm sure every competitor would love to run twin features, also gives the lower budget teams a big chance to win in the 2nd one. I am sure engine wear would be planned into the equation before the season. They should be looking out for the 410 As it is there highest car count out of the 3