Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I think the first thing that should be realized is that there is no system that is absolutely fair. It's the nature of dirt racing to begin with - the track conditions change lap to lap and that can have drastic effects on speed. 

That being said, I disagree that pill draw is more fair than qualifying. Qualifying gives each driver a close to equal chance of laying down a fast lap. The only thing that is unfair in qualifying is that is determined by a pill draw, which ties into the point above - the track can be better at one side of the qualifying order than the other.

If you are truly going to set up heat race qualifying based on time trials, then you might as well line the heat races up on how they actually qualify in time trials rather then make the fast guys start further back in the heats, this is a flawed system, whats the point of going fast only to start further back then slower drivers who timed slower then you and you might as well start the feature race lineups on how the cars finish in the heats, this way you would have the fast cars starting up front just as they do now qualifying through the dash 

Pill Draws are EQUAL FOR EVERY DRIVER it benefits no one, if the fast guys are truly fast they'll find away around the slow guys, Lets put some racing back in the races :)

Going out and racing on the racetrack against the clock without no one else on the track is not what racing was meant to be

Time trials is fine for nascar it gives them insentive for pit lane selection

whats wrong with

1/ pill draws for heat races

2/ run youre 3 or 4 heat races

3/ Run your 1 of 2 B Mains

4/ Run your Feature Race

with 30 car field you would save at least probably 50 laps a night on the race track with no time trials or dash :)

less laps on the race track should mean better race track to race on for the drivers come feature time :)

Now if I was in Charge of the races

1 Time Trials for all cars

2 Then you draw a pill for your heat races how you timed in OR No time trials and just a pill draw for heats

3. 3 Or 4 Heat Races pending on car count

4 1 or 2 B Mains pending on car count

5 then the top 6 from each heat go to the grandstands and pick a pill when you pick a pill you have to pass it off to a friend or a foe, this ADDS EXCITEMENT :)

then the top 18 or 20 start based on pill draw in grandstands in those aligned positions and b main cars tag the A

Now in Points id give Heat race points too top 3 only  3 for 1st 2 for 2nd 1 for 3rd 1

For the Feature only the top 5 get points, 1st gets 10 2nd gets 8 3rd gets 6 4th gets 5 5th gets 4

:)

Oh the word fair. Nothing in life is fair and I doubt a national series is going to do a pill draw night in and night out to set a line up. What happens when guys like Schatz and Pittman and all the high dollar teams draw the number 1 spot a couple night in a row. This board and the media would light up about how unfair/rigged the system is. If a posse member would have won on Friday and Saturday no one would be having this discussion. Not to mention no one was really complaining about the Outlaws system whenever the Cali/Posse locals beat the outlaws.

I actually think you can get more passing in heat races and features by offering one simple thing and it isnt points. Its money. Nothing motivates drivers and raceteams more than $$, heck no one motivates anyone more than $$. You offer a couple hundred bucks for each car a driver passes you will see some more passing.

90% of the people on here know nothing about sprint car racing. 

That would be me...   :/

Opinions may vary...

nah stan ur alright. little bit of a lincoln homer, but aint nothin wrong with that. im nothin special either but some of the comments on this site boggle my mind sometimes.

I'm a SSP homer as well...I guess I'm just a sucker for good racing...   :/    

Opinions may vary...

so, how do you determine who draws the pill first in your scenario.  pill draw is no more fair.

If I have to work a regular job (which a lot of hobby racers/weekly racers do) and have to work on raceday and cannot get to the track until 6:00 PM and all other cars are already in the pit area and have drawn, I can only draw position pill from those #'s left  (so, if #'s 1-30 were all drawn, the best # I can get is 31.  Now, if that was just TT order and I draw 31 but I qualify 25, I improved my position by my own actions in TT.  I could hurt my position by Time trialing bad too.  I've seen guys draw the 1 pill end up being 30th fast even though by pill draw, eveyone thinks they have the best slot.

It's not just dirt track racing either.  NASCAR has the same issue as in the past when you drew an early # and qualifying was late in the day, you were at a disadvantage compared to cars that drew a late # (more shade, cooler temps give an asphalt track more grip).

There is no "equal chance" and racing (just like Life) isn't fair and never will be.

Some of those "high dollar teams" don't have any better equipment than some of those "low-buck teams", they just have more of it.

For 10 years Schatz was the only one that had anything for the Posse. Just glad to see him sucking hind tit.

Pittman may have picked up a few things racing in Central PA the past few years... like a ride with KKR.

But so far he just got lucky to start up front. No real concerns yet.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com

And back in the 90's there were a few years early on where the Outlaws won 6 or 7 a year at the Grove, shutting out the highly over-rated Posse.  Plus they were beating them at every other Central PA track as well, selective memory is an art you've specialized in Cubic, we both know that, lol.....Go back and grab the Sprint Car Annual, it was a very good Allan Brown magazine that came out each year for $5 and had sprint car wins from most touring groups, an education couldn't hurt in the latter years of life my old friend.....

Pennsylvania Posse fans should be careful what they wish for. The format in place now benefits them. Timing 13th to 16th puts them on the front row of a heat, which has benefitted the locals a number of times. Not this last trip in, but definitely, over the last couple years.

One example is Rahmer in last year's National Open. He timed 11th and started on the front row of the heat race, which he won. Don't know if he wins if he starts 11th. He would've had to pass Pittman, who was pretty quick. Same with Dietrich last year at Lincoln, timed 14th and won a heat race off the front row.

A 3rd and a 5th is sucking hind tit? lol

As for the "last 10 years", pretty sure Pittman, Meyers, Dollansky, the King, Sammy, McCarl all have wins at the Grove in that period. The Posse are 5 for the last 17 and that's right around the all time average of about 30 percent win rate. AARN had a great article last week listing out the all-time win results. 

It also nearly guarentees that the Outlaws get 4 cars in the Dash based off of time trials alone because they have such a horsepower advantage at half mile tracks over the local competition anywhere. 

Outlaws have only lost 4 times all year. 3 of those 4 were on tracks shorter than a half-mile. The half-mile victor was Shane Stewart, who has an unlimited budget. Stevie Smith and Rico Abreu won on 3/8th mile tracks with as I would describe it "Outlaw-Calibar" equipment and Chris Bell beat them on a 1/4 mile. 

This new format plays right into the hands of the Outlaws (especially the 71m and 51), there is no arguing that BUT it makes sense because if these guys are going to tow all around the country with the Outlaws, you have to take care of them and put them first.