Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The system when there are 3 heats is to invert the fastest 12, take the top 2 from each heat and the next 4 fastest qualifiers who weren't in the top 2 in their heat but qualified. Schatz was in that next 4 and was able to make the dash and the invert of 6 put him on the pole.

Buzz,

Problem is QT is worth more that the difference between 1st and 2nd...and therefore worth more than the win.  Schatz could win every race between now and the end of the season and still not win the championship.  In fact, if Schatz won every feature, Pittman finished 2nd and was QT each of those nights (Donny gets no qual pts) Daryn would not only win the championship, but would increase the points lead in the process. 

TT have value, but a win should be worth at least 5 points more than second.  Just my humble opinion.

Exactly how I see it.

That makes 2 humble opinions

the difference you are talking about is only one point. the only way you end up with more total points for the night than the guy who won is if you finish second in the main and set fast time, and the winner isn't in the top 5 in qualifying. and that would be one point. how often does that happen? i don't remember if heats pay points. if they do, it gives additional opportunity to gain or lose points.

the most dramatic points drop is still between first and second in the main. the most reward in points and the most gain you can make on the next finishing position is winning the main. it pays the most points and it has the biggest point drop to the next position.

your statement that fast time is worth more than a win is inaccurate because TT is not worth more than the win. second place in the main and fast time is worth more than a win and a 6th place or worse in TT. you are trying to compare one points paying finishing position in the main against a points paying position in the main as well as a points paying TT position.  i think a second place main and a fast time is a better nights work than a win and a 6th place or worse in TT. any way, a win and a fourth place in TT is worth more than second in the main and fast time.

and you still get penalized in your heat and the dash for fast time. but that is the price of being fast.

to indy and beyond!!

Only a Shaver Ford could time better than the PA seasoned Pittman but the 15 is sponsored by chev....Donny might me hosed.

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

I Agree the point system is not right, as many others has said, Donnys numbers out perform Pittmans, and the wins by a long shot, only thing pittman has done better than Donny is as Johnny wouls say,"Quuuuuuiiiiiiicccccccckkkkkkkkkk Tiiiiimmmmmmeeeeeee!!". I Love Pittman and a huge fan of his, but he shouldn't have the points lead.

when only 2 cars from each heat go to the dash and TT points are only awarded to the Top 5, that means you can time in 6th (still have to start in the 2nd row of your heat (along with Quicktime), have to get to the top 2 (becuase odds are you won't get that "free pass" to the dash because 5 cars were quicker than you), win the feature and potentially still lose points to someone (if your quicktime and finish 2nd you OUTPOINT the WINNER of the race (that in itself is asinine) and if the guy was 2nd quick and finished 2nd in the main, he still got hte same amount of points as the WINNER.

Either do away with qualifying points or change the system to award WINNING (even heat races is fine by me, give heat race winners 2 points or something), make those fast qualifiers go for the WIN everytime they are on the track instead of driving around in 4th during the heat knowing they already got a spot in the dash and can start up front in the feature.

The point rules were laid out prior to the season starting and I see 1 thing that Donny could do to fix the extra quick time points, lay down the fastest lap in qualifying and get the extra points. Its like complaining because the better football team lost beacuse the other team that didn't score as many touchdowns in the game but had a better field goal kicker won because of that. Same with basketball, if you took away free throw points alot of games outcomes would be different, but its a part of the game and everyone is aware of it.

They give the extra points to the fast qualifier to add an incentive to be quick time. The way I see it is theres no perfect system. If tomorrow the WoO came out and said they were going to take some of your guys suggestions on here and change the format and points format, within 2 races there would be a new thread on here about how dumb those changes were and the old way was the way they should be doing it. I agree that Schatz is on fire right now and by all rights it appears he will probably be able to win this thing but like Buzz said earlier, don't forget how hot Pittman was early in the year and Donny did nothing but struggle and once again you can say take away Pittmans Quicktime bonus points and Donny would be leading, but they ran there qualifying laps on the same track and Donny could have qualified quick time 8 also and he would have the points lead right now. It goes both ways.

http://gph.is/XMLGff

Doesnt everybody run on the same points system ?  If you have more points than another guy doesnt that mean that you just plain have more points than he does?  Maybe the problem is ( just maybe) Donnie should have TT better at the beginning of the year . So maybe its his fault instead of the genius that came up with this system.  JMTS.

Setting quick time guarantees you won't be on the front row of the dash.  Being 3-5 many nights is a disadvantage to even getting in the dash.  It'd be interesting to see stats on heat and dash starting positions and who has started in front of who the most in the feature.  Donny is on a crazy hot streak but they're both playing the same points system and to this point Darryn has gotten the better of it.  To say he doesn't deserve to be leading is ridiculous.  There are no free points, you have to earn every one of them.  Darryn has simply earned more and certainly deserves to be where he's at.  It should be a great finish.

I never stated Donny should be leading, just find it odd that time trial points mean so much that a guy with twice as many wins, same amount of top 5's and MORE top 10's can be behind (that is crazy no matter how you look at it).  Maybe wins should be worth 10 more points than 2nd place (currently it's 4 points) or just go to giving quick time a bonus point and everyone else gets 0 (instead of 5, 4, 3, 2,1, 0 for everyone else that is currently in place)- would still reward quick time, but not skew it so much.

Just ideas, I personally wish Daryn would win the title, but the way it looks currently, Donny probably can't be stopped (and when I think about it, I haven't seen this kind of domination in the last 1/3 of the season by anyone since Steve in the mid 80's (won 24 of 25 races after Nationals in 1987 if I remember correctly).  Although Donny is top 3ing them all to death instead of winning them all.

I don't want Kandy Kahne to win a title but Pittman is standing on the gas and wheelin that thing like its his last race from warm ups to the checkered in the feach.  Taking anything away from him right now is unfair.

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

 if this makes any difference but just thru qualifing pts. and my #s maybe off by a couple  but by my figures pittman has scored 114+/- pts compared to schatz 47 +/-  67 pts +- difference.  proves your fast for two laps by yourself not in race traffic when it counts. don't get me wrong I think qualifing should count but should  be more of a point advantage for winning 1st to 2nd should be a bigger gap  should use those qualifing pt  for a pts fund at end of year top 5 in qual pts spilt so much money  should not determine champ pts.  but just my opinion 

on the planet right now?  in one series only.  you know who has plenty

more wins than donny and in even more classes of race cars.  schatz maybe the best woo-zer

driver on the planet, that's it!

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

I don't think that TT is an issue to the 15 team, they made a 200 point difference in the last 2 months, all they need to do is keep doing what they have been doing the last 2 months and everything will take care of itself.

OK, I'll bite!  WHo has PLENTY more wins, in more classes this year than Donny Schatz???

Schatz has 19 wins, but he has been incredibly fortunate when it comes to dash inversion draws and since Pittman typically times times faster than Schatz that means he usually starts behind him. If they got rid of the inversion and started the dashes heads up their feature win totals would probably be close to the same.  

9 of Schatz's victories have come when the dash inversion placed him on the front row.

9 from front row 16 of 19 would be closer I call him Front Row Donnie

Schatz wouldn't have near the success if he didn't start on the front row all the time. I'd like to see him come from 12th against the posse at the grove or 21st at the nationals. He'd probably get lapped.