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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Topic: The "Watered-down fiield" arguement.
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ginelmore
MyWebsite
December 16, 2023 at 11:57:23 AM
Joined: 05/09/2008
Posts: 516
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Posted By: StanM on December 15 2023 at 10:34:59 AM

You will likely see most of the High Limit drivers at Husets because HL left the dates open for Husets and the Nationals.  They have scheduled against both Cedar Lake and Ogilvie where I am most likely to attend.  Much of what you say is true from your perspective.  My only concerns are where are the cars to fill the field going to come from.  Nothing against the Brandon Mullens and Riley Goodnos of the world but I can see them at $25 shows.  Is the scenario of fewer than 24 cars at a WoO race worth attending?  By the way, I like both of the drivers I mentioned but am just trying to make the point that there will be watered down shows in some areas for both series.  I can't see many 410's lleaving their local points races to run either series in this part of the country.  
 

That 17 car field in central Minnesota where they were pulling spare cars out of haulers was an hour and a half from me.  We won't know how this all affects these local dates until they start racing.  My complaint really boils down to some personal deciscions whether the entertainment value of these races will work for me.  The wild card is my neighbors moving up to 410 and where they race, Husets where they ran 305's or the IRA which they mentioned as a possibility.  Speaking of IRA, their schedule on the nights of our local WoO races will be one thing to take into consideration.  Balog apparently announced he is running with the Outlaws so if that is the case things are looking better for our local shows.  
 

Call it watered down, fewer teams or whatever but some areas could potentially be affected more.



Everything you have Stan is exactly right when it comes right down to it?

There will only be a couple of shows that are gonna be worth paying the money for... Otherwise, the field of cars are gonna be. Local cars that you could see at a weekly show for 15 or $20.

Y pay the high price for High Limit or the World of Outlaws To see 4-5 cars that are top notch And the rest former All Star cars or just local cars. I will not do it.

Accept for The big races at Husets I'm Looking that saving my money And Going Out to Indiana.

For  Indiana midget week where I can see a nice field of midgets and non wing Sprint cars.

At multiple tracks in a short period of time And possibly catch.

A few winged showers while i'm out there with the new Maverick series

 



alum.427
December 16, 2023 at 04:43:31 PM
Joined: 03/16/2017
Posts: 1605
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Well it depends on if your sponsor wants you there also.  I'm going to say if you have a sponsor that has a high profile team, your going to be there. If your running a team that has a limit on dollars then I'd say your better off staying in the garage and doing maintenance.  Racers have a much different mentally outlook on things when budgets are tight. Without question they would prefer to race at home for the season than ball a car up racing for less than what it cost to make repairs. 



Murphy
December 16, 2023 at 07:12:06 PM
Joined: 05/26/2005
Posts: 3916
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Posted By: on at


Years back I read where Jake Peters was not allowed to race at a 360 show in Huron SD. Apparantly the promoter, some guy named Orville had taken exception to something Jake had said about him. That's the only time I've ever heard of any car being turned away from a race anywhere.



sprintfanatic
December 16, 2023 at 08:19:05 PM
Joined: 12/06/2004
Posts: 1178
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Posted By: Murphy on December 16 2023 at 07:12:06 PM

Years back I read where Jake Peters was not allowed to race at a 360 show in Huron SD. Apparantly the promoter, some guy named Orville had taken exception to something Jake had said about him. That's the only time I've ever heard of any car being turned away from a race anywhere.



I understand that there was a sprint car driver from Indiana who was not allowed to race at a track in Missouri because he pulled a handgun on someone in the pits.  Several years later that ban was rescinded. 



Dzus Button
December 16, 2023 at 08:33:28 PM
Joined: 03/22/2015
Posts: 60
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Posted By: maddog53 on December 16 2023 at 07:28:39 AM

I am pretty sure that as long as you have a 'legal' 410, you can run it for the Outlwas and HL.  I have not heard of any groups refusing a driver.  Same with IRA.  Sometimes they need the field fillers but I have never heard of anyone getting told no.



Pretty sure California racer Cori Andrews was denied a chance to race with the outlaws at Perris back in 2016 and her dad basically start and parked the car that night...despite having top notch legal equipment.  I believe they were worried about experience.  Think she was 19 or 20 at the time.  She was eventually allowed to race later that year with the series.  Also believe that the all-stars asked and paid a race team to park their car before the feature of an IRA/All-star race at Dodge county this past year as well due to safety concerns so it does happen and I believe the series should reserve the right to do so.



Parnelli1970
December 16, 2023 at 10:50:37 PM
Joined: 07/15/2023
Posts: 864
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Mike Stelter at Rolling Wheels NY early 2000s had a square tail tank and a "different" front suspension was denied at a Woo race.



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
December 17, 2023 at 09:04:26 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5747
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Posted By: ginelmore on December 16 2023 at 11:57:23 AM

Everything you have Stan is exactly right when it comes right down to it?

There will only be a couple of shows that are gonna be worth paying the money for... Otherwise, the field of cars are gonna be. Local cars that you could see at a weekly show for 15 or $20.

Y pay the high price for High Limit or the World of Outlaws To see 4-5 cars that are top notch And the rest former All Star cars or just local cars. I will not do it.

Accept for The big races at Husets I'm Looking that saving my money And Going Out to Indiana.

For  Indiana midget week where I can see a nice field of midgets and non wing Sprint cars.

At multiple tracks in a short period of time And possibly catch.

A few winged showers while i'm out there with the new Maverick series

 



I will be fine regardless of how this shakes out here locally.  They're still going to be good shows regardless if I am excited about them or not.  The IRA has put a nice schedule together for us folks by the Minnesota Wisconsin border.  Their race at Mississippi Thunder in May has my attention.  It looks like our neighbors Nellis Racing 74n is going 410 and will likely be running some IRA.  If I go to that show I can add the 41st track to my list.  I have known about that place since it was the Tri-Oval and drove past it a few times but never attended a race there. 

I have been chasing races long enough to know that things will eventually change.  This one blind sided me, I had no idea that the High Limit guys and complaints about the WoO were anything more than a few disgruntled fans.  If I was still walking the pits every week I'd have likely taken the rumors more seriously.  


Stan Meissner

maddog53
December 17, 2023 at 10:22:47 AM
Joined: 03/18/2008
Posts: 1516
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Posted By: Dzus Button on December 16 2023 at 08:33:28 PM

Pretty sure California racer Cori Andrews was denied a chance to race with the outlaws at Perris back in 2016 and her dad basically start and parked the car that night...despite having top notch legal equipment.  I believe they were worried about experience.  Think she was 19 or 20 at the time.  She was eventually allowed to race later that year with the series.  Also believe that the all-stars asked and paid a race team to park their car before the feature of an IRA/All-star race at Dodge county this past year as well due to safety concerns so it does happen and I believe the series should reserve the right to do so.



I guess what I was trying to say is 'if your car is legal and your driver can drive'  My comment was only about legality of the car, I never thought about an inexperienced driver.  My answer would have been different.  Thanks for pointing that out.



sw1911
December 17, 2023 at 10:45:08 AM
Joined: 02/14/2010
Posts: 215
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NFL and pro basketball survived and prospered with competetion. I don't see any reason why we can't have more top tier drivers other than funding. 

I haven't compared the schedules but will HL teams be able to run very many WoO shows?


Within hearing distance of Tri City Speedway

Screwball
December 17, 2023 at 11:17:23 AM
Joined: 09/07/2019
Posts: 45
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Reply to:
Posted By: sw1911 on December 17 2023 at 10:45:08 AM

NFL and pro basketball survived and prospered with competetion. I don't see any reason why we can't have more top tier drivers other than funding. 

I haven't compared the schedules but will HL teams be able to run very many WoO shows?



If I counted correctly, High Limit and the WoO are running on the same day 37 times.  That count is for both weekends and mid-week shows. HL has 60 races and the WoO 86?



egras
December 17, 2023 at 11:46:51 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 4694
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Posted By: Sprinter27R on December 14 2023 at 11:20:11 PM

You must not have seen Cory Day race, mark my words he will be challenging for wins and Kyle will only run the mid week shows Zeb Wise might suprise you as well he scored his first outlaw win last season in Port Royal's Nittany Showdown. Tyler Courtney is still undecided but if he runs HL he will be a threat to win on any given night as well.

 



Yes, I've seen Day race.  I've seen Wise as well multiple times, but Wise running against the All Stars is not the same as running against Sweet and Rico every single race.  Courtney had some great showings with the All Stars and a King's Royal, but same story if he goes HL.  Sweet and Rico will each have at least double the wins of Day, Wise, and Sunshine.  Kyle will win a large percentage of the weekday races he enters.  No disrespect towards anyone, but those 3 are on a different level.   JMO though.  Welcomed to disagree with me.  

It do find it cute that some pretend that the HL has a well rounded roster and only the Outlaws are top heavy.  Both are pretty much identical, and both will be equally hated by the average sprint car fan (because the average sprint car fan is a complete idiot---as has been proven by social media the past 3 months) the end of 2024.  I, for one, will hate neither organization as they are doing what is necessary to grow, and protect their brands.  

 

(to be clear, I find the average fan on Hoseheads to be FAR more intelligent than the idiots I'm reading on the Facebook group pages---on hoseheads, at least if someone doesn't agree with the general consensus, they can provide a rational reasoning behind their opinion.  Facebook is just full of cheerleaders with no actual point)

 

 



revjimk
December 17, 2023 at 12:51:35 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 8044
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Reply to:
Posted By: ginelmore on December 16 2023 at 11:57:23 AM

Everything you have Stan is exactly right when it comes right down to it?

There will only be a couple of shows that are gonna be worth paying the money for... Otherwise, the field of cars are gonna be. Local cars that you could see at a weekly show for 15 or $20.

Y pay the high price for High Limit or the World of Outlaws To see 4-5 cars that are top notch And the rest former All Star cars or just local cars. I will not do it.

Accept for The big races at Husets I'm Looking that saving my money And Going Out to Indiana.

For  Indiana midget week where I can see a nice field of midgets and non wing Sprint cars.

At multiple tracks in a short period of time And possibly catch.

A few winged showers while i'm out there with the new Maverick series

 



Indiana Midget Week is great! :)



revjimk
December 17, 2023 at 12:56:42 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 8044
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This message was edited on December 17, 2023 at 01:14:41 PM by revjimk
Reply to:
Posted By: sw1911 on December 17 2023 at 10:45:08 AM

NFL and pro basketball survived and prospered with competetion. I don't see any reason why we can't have more top tier drivers other than funding. 

I haven't compared the schedules but will HL teams be able to run very many WoO shows?



Yea, but those situations ended up in mergers....

Who knows whats gonna happen? ... I'm not taking sides, willing to wait & see

But seems like Ohio fans are getting screwed.... :(

 



Jake B.
December 17, 2023 at 01:13:20 PM
Joined: 10/21/2005
Posts: 571
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This message was edited on December 17, 2023 at 01:13:50 PM by Jake B.
Reply to:
Posted By: ChadPatterson on December 15 2023 at 01:01:09 PM

You're right about the drivers have a better opportunity to make more money. That is a good thing.

Maybe I am the minority but I liked the World of Outlaws product. When I went to their race, I was going to see the best drivers so I was willing to pay a higher ticket price. That doesn't mean they always have the best race.

When I go to a NHL game, I am expecting to see the best players. Doesn't mean I will see the best game in hockey but I will see the big names. I am not there to see the call ups from the AHL. Not to say I have a problem with them or they can't put on a show, but I didn't pay $90 per ticket to watch someone from the little leagues. 

I raced 360s for five years. I was a nobody but I lived from dream and had a blast. No one went out of their way to see me race (except my family and friends). I was a field filler having fun. We need people like that to show up to races which you are right about for areas where there is a 410 base.

My home track of Cedar Lake Speedway will not have Sweet, Bayston, and Allen at their race in 2024. Abreu was also there last year but he isn't always there. That is a loss of 3-4 cars. Will others replace them? Maybe, but these guys are top tier guys. Will I be excited for the race? Yes. But the fact of the matter is we will see a decrease in the overall quality of cars. 

We need drivers and teams to make the money they need to for survival. The same for tracks and series. Sponsors need to be happy. Fans need to make sure they feel they are getting value for the tickets. 

I am taking my son to a Vikings game. It cost $230 to sit in the upper deck for two people. This is just tickets. Wild tickets vary a lot but it will be about $90 per ticket for a weekend game. I love the value of the Outlaws as for me it is about $40 for tickets. The day 410 sprint cars series charge $75+ for tickets to regular shows, I am out. I feel the value is there now. But what happens when that Flo money runs dry and fans get stuck paying the bill of the Dolly Parton purses? 

Lastly, I agree that 2024 will be a year for young guns to show what they can do. It just sucks that we had a good thing going, we still do, but it will be different. Now a driver says he is racing X tour and half the crowd says he sucks and will drop off by spring. We all love sprint car racing. Seems like it is us vs. them thing now. 



I'm not making comments on the original topic, I'm just here to say that "Dolly Parton purses" is funny. :-D


Signature here.

revjimk
December 17, 2023 at 01:16:40 PM
Joined: 09/14/2010
Posts: 8044
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HL gets another commitment: https://www.floracing.com/articles/11678155-brent-marks-back-on-national-tour-commits-to-high-limit-racing-in-2024?status=0,1,2&future=1&utm_medium=socialmedia&utm_source=twitter&utm_term=thumbnail.hl-marks-announcement&utm_content=article&utm_campaign=highlimitracing&contract_id=0063m00000sb0bgaaa&fbclid=IwAR3RXaWB72w7d0v1qxvW16E52o6Tl-blVL6yKMtqlNcjQmrSp_IZqTMhh6I

Does HL pay tow money?



rrounds55
December 17, 2023 at 06:04:02 PM
Joined: 11/20/2023
Posts: 19
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Posted By: Screwball on December 17 2023 at 11:17:23 AM

If I counted correctly, High Limit and the WoO are running on the same day 37 times.  That count is for both weekends and mid-week shows. HL has 60 races and the WoO 86?



The way I look at it, I'm just like a kid in a candy store. Instead of 75 to 85 races to see top flight drivers, we have 146 races to see top caliber cars and drivers. I just need to save more money to see the extra races in CA that we want to go to. We already got our tickets for the Gray's Harbor H/L race(720 miles one way) so I guess we're doing the whole west coast swing of the H/L series and OutLaws. 



longtimefan
December 17, 2023 at 06:20:07 PM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 1071
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So far I have only seen one signing (Brent Marks) that will affect any races that I plan to see. I may even see more cars at some races. HL doesn't seem to have races scheduled during Pa Speedweek so he will likely be at some those as well as early and late season races. It is a little foggy here right now but I don't think it is because the sky is falling.



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
December 18, 2023 at 10:23:19 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5747
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This message was edited on December 18, 2023 at 12:10:27 PM by StanM
Reply to:
Posted By: Screwball on December 17 2023 at 11:17:23 AM

If I counted correctly, High Limit and the WoO are running on the same day 37 times.  That count is for both weekends and mid-week shows. HL has 60 races and the WoO 86?



Most Outlaw drivers welcomed time off with their 86 race schedule yet this whole thing is about some teams wanting to race ouside the series more than 4 times?  Who races more than 90 410 events per season?  That has to be a very short list.


Stan Meissner

sprintfast
December 18, 2023 at 10:34:37 AM
Joined: 07/01/2012
Posts: 246
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Reply to:
Posted By: rrounds55 on December 17 2023 at 06:04:02 PM

The way I look at it, I'm just like a kid in a candy store. Instead of 75 to 85 races to see top flight drivers, we have 146 races to see top caliber cars and drivers. I just need to save more money to see the extra races in CA that we want to go to. We already got our tickets for the Gray's Harbor H/L race(720 miles one way) so I guess we're doing the whole west coast swing of the H/L series and OutLaws. 



There is going to be like 30 fulltime teams onthe road. The outlaws could never support that many teams alone. This will be the best year of sprint car racing so many races to watch. 



onporch
December 19, 2023 at 06:45:29 AM
Joined: 02/12/2017
Posts: 500
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This message was edited on December 19, 2023 at 06:46:09 AM by onporch
Reply to:
Posted By: StanM on December 18 2023 at 10:23:19 AM

Most Outlaw drivers welcomed time off with their 86 race schedule yet this whole thing is about some teams wanting to race ouside the series more than 4 times?  Who races more than 90 410 events per season?  That has to be a very short list.




Stan,

The problem with the Outlaws schedule is that it is spread too thin throughout the year. They generally run 2 races then there are 4 - 5 days off and about 1000 miles to go to get to the next race. That's fine if you fly home (Donny & Carson) but not everybody can do that. Road warriors get plenty of time off but not necessarily where and when they desire that time off. Outlaws have to dedicate about 75% of their calendar year to the series. 

The HL schedule is more condensed with more races per week. HL drivers only dedicate 40 - 50% of their calendar year to the series. The rest of the time they can vacation, race locally, or attend one of the 45+ Outlaw races that are scheduled during that time off. That's where the freedom argument comes into play.

If you'd like more details listen to Jacob Allen talk about it on David Gravel's podcast. Jacob has traveled the series many years and knows a lot more about it than any of us.

The link is here:

Jacob is excited about HL

And here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jXDHlunlQA



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