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July 18, 2023 at
11:22:52 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on July 17 2023 at 12:19:24 PM
That doesn't make sense. If all the cars are the same speed, pole position wins every time
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Exactly the point. I think of the six heats only one car came from outside of the front row to finish first or second.
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July 18, 2023 at
11:26:51 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on July 17 2023 at 12:24:47 PM
I'm one of those people who has questioned the Knoxville format for years, but I agree on qualifying points. With an invert of 6, its necessary...otherwise it would pay to sandbag.
I think my gripe with Knoxville has been that TT points are twice as much as heat points. I thought they should be the same
But who knows? Unless you could start everyone side by side, no perfectly fair format is possible.
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The amount of points awarded for each discipline doesn't matter, only the difference between the positions.
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July 18, 2023 at
12:20:45 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Michael_N on July 18 2023 at 11:22:52 AM
Exactly the point. I think of the six heats only one car came from outside of the front row to finish first or second.
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Schatz was the only one who came from row two to finish first, and Marks came from 4th to 2nd but it was all basically on the first lap. Heck Schuerenburg held the lead for about 4-5laps with an engine laying down until Sheldon got by him on the last lap. Still held on to 2nd. Out of the quick qualifiers Peck and Sweet moved up 2 spots, Logan & Rico only moved up 1 spot. Top 21 were basically .20sec from each other's qualifying time, top 34 were only .25sec from each other. That was the first clue that no passing was going to happen. Especially when the cars that are .25sec faster are multiple rows behind. 36car invert for a 1 day show is just completely stupid in 2023. Knoxville is one thing when the money and the goal/reward is a bigger show, plus the points are distributed differently between positions so that is fine. The heats were were 10 laps but really they could have saved a lot of wear and tear and just made them 2 and the C & B main 5laps.
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July 18, 2023 at
01:36:29 PM
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This message was edited on
July 18, 2023 at
01:37:47 PM by revjimk
Reply to:
Posted By: Michael_N on July 18 2023 at 11:26:51 AM
The amount of points awarded for each discipline doesn't matter, only the difference between the positions.
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True
Now I have to search for Knoxville format. I think there is more difference between positions for the qualifying. I may be wrong
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July 18, 2023 at
01:44:22 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on July 18 2023 at 01:36:29 PM
True
Now I have to search for Knoxville format. I think there is more difference between positions for the qualifying. I may be wrong
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Qualifying each position is worth 2pts. Heats are 3pts for each position, features are 2pts for each spot. Fifth in the C-main gets 92pts, 5th in B-main gets 142pts, Winner of A main gets 200pts, goes down by 2 from there. Plus keep in mind the whole Nationals field is split in half.
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July 18, 2023 at
06:52:38 PM
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This message was edited on
July 18, 2023 at
06:56:09 PM by revjimk
Reply to:
Posted By: Nick14 on July 18 2023 at 01:44:22 PM
Qualifying each position is worth 2pts. Heats are 3pts for each position, features are 2pts for each spot. Fifth in the C-main gets 92pts, 5th in B-main gets 142pts, Winner of A main gets 200pts, goes down by 2 from there. Plus keep in mind the whole Nationals field is split in half.
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OK, thanks, I just looked that up too
So that makes it seem like heats count more than qualifying... however since there are about 50 cars qualifying, & what, 10 cars or so in each heat, the guy who finishes last in TTs is a lot worse off than guy who finishes last in heats.
Interesting & confusing.... best I can figure, everybody who qualifies worse than 15th in TT is further behind than the guys who finished last in heat (If 10 cars in each heat, last place is 30 points behind winner, 15th best TT is also 30 behind TT winner, all the rest even further behind)
Somehow it works out
So what does this have to do with Eldora? I guess the original point is that with an invert of 6, it makes sense to have TT points too...
But what do I know? More knowledgable guys than me came up with these rules ;)
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July 19, 2023 at
08:44:33 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on July 18 2023 at 06:52:38 PM
OK, thanks, I just looked that up too
So that makes it seem like heats count more than qualifying... however since there are about 50 cars qualifying, & what, 10 cars or so in each heat, the guy who finishes last in TTs is a lot worse off than guy who finishes last in heats.
Interesting & confusing.... best I can figure, everybody who qualifies worse than 15th in TT is further behind than the guys who finished last in heat (If 10 cars in each heat, last place is 30 points behind winner, 15th best TT is also 30 behind TT winner, all the rest even further behind)
Somehow it works out
So what does this have to do with Eldora? I guess the original point is that with an invert of 6, it makes sense to have TT points too...
But what do I know? More knowledgable guys than me came up with these rules 
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Knoxville & Eldora needs to hang up a Suggestion Box near the Ticket office for those interested in fixing their race programs! LMAO.
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July 19, 2023 at
09:18:27 AM
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1840
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Reply to:
Posted By: revjimk on July 18 2023 at 06:52:38 PM
OK, thanks, I just looked that up too
So that makes it seem like heats count more than qualifying... however since there are about 50 cars qualifying, & what, 10 cars or so in each heat, the guy who finishes last in TTs is a lot worse off than guy who finishes last in heats.
Interesting & confusing.... best I can figure, everybody who qualifies worse than 15th in TT is further behind than the guys who finished last in heat (If 10 cars in each heat, last place is 30 points behind winner, 15th best TT is also 30 behind TT winner, all the rest even further behind)
Somehow it works out
So what does this have to do with Eldora? I guess the original point is that with an invert of 6, it makes sense to have TT points too...
But what do I know? More knowledgable guys than me came up with these rules
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For Knoxville, the format it gives you an opportunity to dig out of a hole. Yeah if you TT bad, you may have hurt your chances of starting upfront on Saturday, but you don't necessarily ruin your chances on missing the feature completely depending on how bad you TT. You have to do well in all 3 phases of the program and need to perform each time you hit the track but at the same time, you are not completely out of the running but you have to still perform. Qualify bad, yes you do not get a lot of qualifying points, but you start towards the front of the heat. Perform there and move up to maximize your points you get rewarded there. Qualify well, yes you start in the back but you can still move up and get points that way and reap more rewards. Make the feature you score more points and see where you stack up.
Eldora Kings Royal, perform good in qualifying start in the back of heat, bad you start in the front. Rewarded for doing bad, punished for doing good. And again some will say well if they are that fast then they should have no problem getting to the front which is BS in 2023 because again, 34cars within .25sec of each other (36 inverted). When its that close whoever starts 1st was not that much slower than who started 6th plus they have the advantage of having distance and being able to accelerate 1st. I have always equated the invert in racing to giving points to the losing team in baseball, football, basketball to give them the lead and telling the team that was leading, well you scored that many points in the first half you should be able to score around the same amount this half, you have to earn your win. No they had already earned it have the slow cars or team thats down get better
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July 19, 2023 at
12:43:02 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Nick14 on July 19 2023 at 09:18:27 AM
For Knoxville, the format it gives you an opportunity to dig out of a hole. Yeah if you TT bad, you may have hurt your chances of starting upfront on Saturday, but you don't necessarily ruin your chances on missing the feature completely depending on how bad you TT. You have to do well in all 3 phases of the program and need to perform each time you hit the track but at the same time, you are not completely out of the running but you have to still perform. Qualify bad, yes you do not get a lot of qualifying points, but you start towards the front of the heat. Perform there and move up to maximize your points you get rewarded there. Qualify well, yes you start in the back but you can still move up and get points that way and reap more rewards. Make the feature you score more points and see where you stack up.
Eldora Kings Royal, perform good in qualifying start in the back of heat, bad you start in the front. Rewarded for doing bad, punished for doing good. And again some will say well if they are that fast then they should have no problem getting to the front which is BS in 2023 because again, 34cars within .25sec of each other (36 inverted). When its that close whoever starts 1st was not that much slower than who started 6th plus they have the advantage of having distance and being able to accelerate 1st. I have always equated the invert in racing to giving points to the losing team in baseball, football, basketball to give them the lead and telling the team that was leading, well you scored that many points in the first half you should be able to score around the same amount this half, you have to earn your win. No they had already earned it have the slow cars or team thats down get better
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I pretty much agree with that...
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July 19, 2023 at
12:45:29 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Paintboss on July 19 2023 at 08:44:33 AM
Knoxville & Eldora needs to hang up a Suggestion Box near the Ticket office for those interested in fixing their race programs! LMAO.
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I'm not trying to fix anything, just trying to figure out why they do it that way
Well, I did suggest TT points, but I'm not driving to Ohio & put it in a box... ;)
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