Wait until some of the casual fans realize Sheldon or none of the other outlaws are racing. Add is misleading.
The outlaws aren't preventing any one from anything. It's a business that has rules. If you want to be part of their business you abide by their rules. The drivers all want to cash in on what the outlaws have worked had to create but some want the best of both worlds.
Midweek one night races do not work. Never have and never will.
It's good in theory but none of the people associated with it have a real job. They don't understand that the average working person isn't going unless its very close to him being a midweek deal, especially in September after they have used up all their days off. Maybe they can get enough revenue from othe sources to pay for it but I can't see the average race fan paying for an expensive ticket for a show without some elite talent. Granted there will be very good guys there but why go there for a few when you can go to Eldora and have the complete experience.
I went to some of the USA shows back in the day. They were a farse.
Hopefully they find the keys to the water truck so you can actually see the race. Most Ohio shows remind me of nothing more than a dust storm. Those Ohio fans sure are tough to put up with some of the crap racetracks that are there.
We may not like how the WoO handles some aspects of their business, but we can at least understand why they do some of what they do. Short answer to most questions is money. Money is why they are in this business.
From the outside looking in, some things are pretty apparant. Consider this scenario. Suppose the WoO has a Saturday night race at Knoxville. Cool, right? Then the other guys schedule a race at Eagle, 3 hours west the week before, and at Burlington, 2 hours east the week after. Cool, right? Not if you are the WoO. Suddenly, folks are able to see their favorite WoO racers at non-WoO shows, without paying anything to the WoO.
Presumably, in this scenario, almost everyone in this wins. The fans see their WoO stars. The WoO racers makes some money. Eagle and Burlington get to make some money- and not have to pay the WoO to bring WoO racers to their track. The almost part is that the World of Outlaws didn't make anything off those races, even though they are the ones that make the WoO racers valuble commodites to the tracks. Suddenly WoO feels someone else is eating their pie.
Eat enough of someone else's pie, and things start to snowball. Why would Knoxville want to have a WoO race next time? The other tracks don't pay the WoO for WoO drivers to show up.Why should Knoxville? Long and short of it, that's why WoO developed the system to compensate the drivers who make their series successful, and unfortunately penalize those that don't.
There's change in the wind for auto racing in America. As yet, I don't think anyone quite knows where racing is headed, but it's obvious that a lot of people are thinking about it.
Posted By: alum.427 on September 21 2022 at 05:44:28 AM
Murphy, I agree with what your saying. If all the guys on the platinum deal decide not to sign then I think WRG will have to rethink there stronghold tactics they have on the sprint car teams. If you consider a full season on the outlaw tour I'm not sure what the dollars add up to by being a platinum member. There's always been speculation about the deal but I know and understand why they keep it quite.
You'll still have some guys sign and return I'll bet. Guys like Rose, Sides, Gass. Without all the benefits they receive, I don't think there's any way those type of teams can afford to run the entire tour.
You make some good points, but don't underestimate the WoO ability to play hardball, because it is all about the money- the money going to them. What happens if all the drivers decide they are going to the other racers and the WoO locks them out? Lots of ways that could go, but how does a WoO driver go back to their national sponser and explain that? This could go a lot of different kinds of bad for a lot of people.
The WoO has withstood 3 major challenges to their grip on what they have going. There's no way to believe they wouldn't fight off challenge #4 with just as much effort. I know, you're saying this is different, but to the WoO, it's just someone else trying to eat their pie.
Some people that come on this forum are deranged it seems.
First off, the great state of Ohio has some of the best tracks, racing, and local drivers in the country. Our tracks are not all "dust bowls". More specifically Wayne County has not been one for close to 3 years now.
Second, mid-week shows are working right now. The late models are doing this same thing. Go read about that.
Lastly, as Brad Sweet and Kyle Larson have said over and over again. They are not trying to take a piece of the WoO pie. How could they when this is a 12-16 race mid week series? The World Racing Group makes and plays by their own rules, which they can afford to do. I know for a fact this whole thing is in regards to the streaming money. The Outlaw teams and drivers see no part of it. The subscription numbers and dollar amounts (that the drivers btw are s big part of bringing in)are not shared with WoO members. One buys a subscription to Dirtvision to watch the best drivers in the country not the other way around.
In my opinion High Limit should be embraced. If the Outlaws do not play nice with their drivers... it will hurt them in the long run. You can be a Brent Mark's, Brown, or Gio Scelzi and run where you please and those teams seem fine without the full Outlaw deal.
I think High Limit will be good overall for everyone, people just need to realize this is not about another full time touring body.
Something that I haven't seen mentioned here is the whole equation on midweek shows has changed with the advent of streaming. If the number of streams is the goal then midweek makes total sense...no competetion from local shows or other streaming events. A different sport but ESPN has made some very good money off of weeknight MAC football over the years not because MAC football is great but because its football on TV without any competition.
Posted By: dsc1600 on September 20 2022 at 02:00:39 PM
Yea there's like 12 people left unfortunately.
I was somewhat disappointed by the car count at LPS for the first show but this one should get into the 40s assuming the locals support it. $32k is outstanding money.
Most racing discussion moved to social media groups and posts years ago. Most of us that still come here do it out of habit. I had one of these HH boards attached to my website that I shut down in 2016 since their inception. It's still a habit for me because I had one from 99-2016 but I doubt there are many still here from 1999. I still recognize a few names but there is a lot of clutter nowadays.
More high paying Non-WOO races is a good thing in my book but I suspect there will be an agreement between WOO and High Limit to allow them to run next year. I just wonder where all the money is coming from to pay these kind of purses for mid-week shows at tracks that don't normally have races that pay anywhere near these amounts. Is Larson puttung up the cash so the tracks don't lose money? I don't really see this series being successful long term honestly. Good while it lasts though. I'll tune in on FLO.
Posted By: StanM on September 21 2022 at 04:22:16 PM
Most racing discussion moved to social media groups and posts years ago. Most of us that still come here do it out of habit. I had one of these HH boards attached to my website that I shut down in 2016 since their inception. It's still a habit for me because I had one from 99-2016 but I doubt there are many still here from 1999. I still recognize a few names but there is a lot of clutter nowadays.
I was on your Minnesota board. You might not remember me. I used to be better at minding P's and Q's. ;)
Posted By: Murphy on September 21 2022 at 12:58:03 PM
We may not like how the WoO handles some aspects of their business, but we can at least understand why they do some of what they do. Short answer to most questions is money. Money is why they are in this business.
From the outside looking in, some things are pretty apparant. Consider this scenario. Suppose the WoO has a Saturday night race at Knoxville. Cool, right? Then the other guys schedule a race at Eagle, 3 hours west the week before, and at Burlington, 2 hours east the week after. Cool, right? Not if you are the WoO. Suddenly, folks are able to see their favorite WoO racers at non-WoO shows, without paying anything to the WoO.
Presumably, in this scenario, almost everyone in this wins. The fans see their WoO stars. The WoO racers makes some money. Eagle and Burlington get to make some money- and not have to pay the WoO to bring WoO racers to their track. The almost part is that the World of Outlaws didn't make anything off those races, even though they are the ones that make the WoO racers valuble commodites to the tracks. Suddenly WoO feels someone else is eating their pie.
Eat enough of someone else's pie, and things start to snowball. Why would Knoxville want to have a WoO race next time? The other tracks don't pay the WoO for WoO drivers to show up.Why should Knoxville? Long and short of it, that's why WoO developed the system to compensate the drivers who make their series successful, and unfortunately penalize those that don't.
There's change in the wind for auto racing in America. As yet, I don't think anyone quite knows where racing is headed, but it's obvious that a lot of people are thinking about it.
100% agree. If the WoO stars run at a track an hour closer to me, well I will just go to that track. Now the track who has the Outlaw race loses a fan and more importantly a paying customer.
Plus I have a question for all you people who say the WoO should let their drivers race High Limit. How many of you own a business? And where is it located, because I want to come to your area and open the same business. You won't mind helping out with getting through your local areas government Red tape and finding me a good area to build. Maybe you could loan me some of your best people who know how the area customers like things. I mean if is good enough for the WRG to share their assets I think you all would be on board with sharing the years of hard labor and experience you all have in businesses. It would be a win win for both of us.
Also I have another question. Did Larson and Sweet ever speak with the WoO about working with them to set up a series within the WoO series? If as Larson and Sweet say it about getting the racers more better paying races why not work within the WoO. But then Larson and Sweet would have to share the sanction fee and streaming revenues. Always follow the money.
WoO started Dirtviision for a reason and now everyone thinks they should let their racers be on their biggest Rival Flo.
WoO drivers and team owners are saying enough is enough. 100 races a year is to much, away from home base for to long.
USA sprint car series. Come one, come all. We have Steve Kinser in the house. The 11 team wanted more money in there pockets because they felt they were the show. Ted Johnson waved bye.
ASCOC, owned by Tony Stewart, runs basically ohio, pa, indiana, with a few races in bordering states. The have a niche in that locals feel they have a better chance of winning. Home more than a WoO team, and cost are less. A WoO team could put a few extra dollars in there pocket.
Winner, NOBODY
Loser, the guys on the road that run under the banner of being an outlaw. There are NO true outlaws anymore.
Posted By: ohiosprintcarfan83 on September 21 2022 at 02:47:27 PM
Some people that come on this forum are deranged it seems.
First off, the great state of Ohio has some of the best tracks, racing, and local drivers in the country. Our tracks are not all "dust bowls". More specifically Wayne County has not been one for close to 3 years now.
Second, mid-week shows are working right now. The late models are doing this same thing. Go read about that.
Lastly, as Brad Sweet and Kyle Larson have said over and over again. They are not trying to take a piece of the WoO pie. How could they when this is a 12-16 race mid week series? The World Racing Group makes and plays by their own rules, which they can afford to do. I know for a fact this whole thing is in regards to the streaming money. The Outlaw teams and drivers see no part of it. The subscription numbers and dollar amounts (that the drivers btw are s big part of bringing in)are not shared with WoO members. One buys a subscription to Dirtvision to watch the best drivers in the country not the other way around.
In my opinion High Limit should be embraced. If the Outlaws do not play nice with their drivers... it will hurt them in the long run. You can be a Brent Mark's, Brown, or Gio Scelzi and run where you please and those teams seem fine without the full Outlaw deal.
I think High Limit will be good overall for everyone, people just need to realize this is not about another full time touring body.
Posted By: RRacer70 on September 20 2022 at 11:23:31 AM
The High Limit Sprints are doing the 2nd race at Sheldon Haudenschild's home track, Wayne County Speedway on Tuesday September 27. Sheldon is apparently promoting this race.
I am surprised to not hear much about it on here but I do realize this board is not much about the Ohio tracks anymore.
Money was just raised to over 30k +
Run what you brung and race where ever you want was the true Outlaw way. Ted offered an option to capitolize on their talent. Now its a business and the WRG make the rules. We have seen it in the past how hard it was to start a new series in football basketbal car racing now golf it seems the NFL.NBA.WOO,PGA all seem to be able to withstand any mutiny. Kyle Larson is probably one of WOO biggest draws and He isnt a card carrying member. Cappy stood his ground and is one of the few!
Posted By: Murphy on September 21 2022 at 06:10:22 PM
I was on your Minnesota board. You might not remember me. I used to be better at minding P's and Q's.
LOL, minding P's and Q's. I don't miss the phone calls and e-mails and trying to calm down irate drivers, owners, promoters and sponsors. It might have looked cool to have a site but trust me, it wasn't worth the headaches looking back at it.
I think what Sprint fans who don't watch Late Models are missing abou this is that it isn't an attempt to go head to head with the WoO, it's the Sprint version of Flo's Race Night in America. Basically another racing option during the week to catch some eyeballs on an otherwise dead night. Late Models easily out number Sprint 2-1 and have more that one traveling series.
We remember the two attempts to break away from the WoO in '89 and 2007. That was head to head with the biggest names hailing from the WoO tour. At the end of the day the thing that made the difference was the WoO brand name was to Sprint Cars what the name Klenex was to tissue paper. For every fan sitting on groups like this agonizing about the possibilities there are ten others who don't pay any attention to these forums. Certain ones that call themselves racing media, like a certain crooked mouth shit stirrer that has shown up on YouTube, are trying to create controversy over another nothing burger.
I watched one High Limit race so far, good week day show with a car count in the thirties. My only involvement is to decide whether to watch the 9/27 race or catch up on one of the streaming series. I already spend too much time watching races on the weekends so I sometimes skip a few so I can tend to other aspects of life. Streaming keeps me connected to racing in my 70's after chasing is for years. It gives me ideas for road trips and something to sneak a peek at on my phone when out and about. It's unlikely there will ever be one of these mid week races anywhere near me as there aren't enough 410's to fill the field. The deal in this post is that people are agonizing over what amounts to a Tuesday night TV option for all but a few close enough to squeeze in a live race on a work night.
That's right Stan, I'll watching on Tues night. They will be gunning for 30 grand and it might be an Ohio local, or an invader who takes it home. I don't see what there is to complain about.
I thinks it's great if you are having races with a good car count and the fans are happy. The best thing is it's not going to be 1 of 4 or 5 same drivers that's always holding the trophy and taking the check home at the end of the day. Don't get me wrong, I love watching the Outlaws but as long as WoO has them by the short hairs they're screwed!
