Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I wonder about that too, in fact EVERY year I ask how they line up the A-Main on Qualifying nites. Knoxville website omits that, ever since I've been following The Nats the last 12 years...& all the other websites just print Knoxville "info" (or lack thereof) verbatim...

Are you sure its based on Qualifying time? I thought it was based on points...

Does ANYONE know for sure? I guess I could figure it out by checking results, but I have other things to do at the moment

OK, I found the time & reversed engineered it.... definitely by time trials, inverted by 8

Top 6 six starters in the A were 26, 25, 24, 23, 22, 21 in qualifying. 7th & 8th starters timed 11th & 10th

Not so cool, IMHO

Nice slogan for Smith Barney but in NO WAY applies to last nite's racing...

Schuchart timed 26th, started 3 in his heat by way of handicap, finished third, got the pole position by handicap & held it...

Timed 26th & didn't pass ANYONE the whole nite & you think he "EARNED" it????

& I'm a big Schuchart fan, but willing to face the facts

YOU can't handle the truth!!!!

The 20 transfers from the heats get points based on qual and heat finish.  The top 8 I'm points that transfer through heats are inverted.  So high points after heats starts 8th. 8th most points starts 1st.  9 the through 20th in points start straight up.  The b is lined up straight up based on who has most points from the non transfer cars and top 4 in B start 21 to 24 in A regardless of points. 

All features is lined up by time, per outlaws Facebook post

A couple of things to think about.

1, It is their track and their race so they can run it as they please.

2, As long as most Outlaws make the A main on Sat. no one is going to push for a change because no one cares about the other 85 or 90  poor saps who only came so they could say they ran the Knoxville Nationals. Some will make it and that will keep the dream alive for them for next year.

Yes times not points. Points don't play till Saturday my bad 

Two things to reply here:

1. No one passed him either. I'd say that's earning it.

2. For his "unearned" performance, he's eighth in points and at best will start deep Saturday night. 

He might have won the battle, but he wants the war and he's not put himself in great shape for that.

The format consistently produces some of the best racing of the year.  Sure last night wasn't the best, but I would consider that an exception to the rule.  More times than not my group walks away from each night of the Nationals (especially qualifying nights) talking about how great the racing was.

Spot on dude. I know it's our own little world with it being dirt  track prep, but this type of shit is everywhere and it's seriously affecting the world. In a bad way. People are literally being  brainwashed. 

Bitch, bitch, bitch. If you don't like the format, etc stay home & watch Mash reruns.

100% improvement tonight - 4 cars from heats to A, only 2 last night

still not bitching about the format, has there ever been a time - even at the nationals - when 80% of the 20 fastest qualifiers had to run the B

Again I say the first format change is to make each qualification night it's own seperate deal. 

8 lock in from Wednesday and 8 lock in from Thursday.  We can work on any other format invert changes but we need to make the nights separate.   There is just to much that can change from one night to the next.

A team races their ass of against 50 other cars and the points are calculated against the whole field.  When a team only controls their destiny on half the field and the other half they have to stand around and hope.  I know as a racer I want to control my destiny as much as I can when I race.

Making the days wouldn't change the excitement level or hard racing it would just take fate , chance, luck whatever out of the mix.  Just let the racers slug it out on an even playing field.

I think this one is fair for Knoxville to at least discuss but I have to think there's probably unintended consequences with this - namely if the 9th/10th scoring drivers one night score better than 7th/8th on the other, then they're kind of getting hosed. 

I guess to simplify it - the drivers know the format coming in and have to accept the outcome of it. There aren't many undeserved outliers this year - the split was 6/10 Weds vs Thurs, but its not like the Weds guys that just missed it are in bad shape - the majority of the front five rows locked into the B are Weds guys. 

Qualifying night formats should change with points awarded from 100 down for time trials.

Then drivers pick their heat grids in time trial order with passing points applied to heats. Total combined points used to set the grids for the Mains, no invert. Top 8 in the prelim night A-Main transfer to the main event. 9-12 go to the final night B-Main and the rest can have another crack on Friday night.

Fixes the problem of excessive heat race inverts and creates some strategy around risk & reward in heat racing whilst maintaining the integrity of a cumulative points format and not altering the race night schedule.

Only fair way is to run double heats and you accumulate points by flipping the the finishing order of the first heat.  Time trials are a waste.  Run 15 lap heat races,  so you start up front in the first one, and everyone knows there is very little passing. Come that second round of heats when your winner is starting at the tail if he's fast and if he's good you'll see a great race. Knoxville is a great facility and the racing will be good, but when you get a track like this 2 nights in a row. Not so much. Shatz wasn't to happy with the prep, i'm sure many others felt likewise. 

There will never be a fair way to do it as a dirt track changes from race to race. Even in your suggested double heat format, you're going to have to pill draw for heats that can be unbalanced, and then as you even noted, the track will be drastically different in the two heats. For instance, a very fast driver could be placed with a really weak field and draw up front for the first heat, utilize a fast/narrow track to get a win, and then charge through the second heat on a widened-out track against inferior competition.

Far too many people getting lost in the weeds of complaining about prelim night format that are ignoring that they primarily serve to set up Saturday night. Looking at the lock-ins and lineups, I'd say the format did its job.

"It's a good format and a smart fan base will appreciate it. And Knoxville is not gonna dumb it down for some bonehead mass audience!!!"

-George Costanza 

Donny comments I'm sure we're shared by many. Brownie owning up to it was because they rarely get a sloppy wet surface and they flat out missed the set up. I bet brownie's crew chief gave somebody an ear full, :( :( 

You used 42 exclamation points in just this thread. 

Out of curiosity, why are you always shouting?