Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The Goodyear days were the best for passing in the A main. The tires actually deteriorated and made it fun. Nowadays you have to rely on lapped traffic, which despite the memories of the older folks on the board, has always been the case with winged sprint cars. 

Steve Kinser won the 1992 Knoxville Nats by 9 seconds. 

The Goodyear days were the best for passing in the A main. The tires actually deteriorated and made it fun. Nowadays you have to rely on lapped traffic, which despite the memories of the older folks on the board, has always been the case with winged sprint cars. 

Steve Kinser won the 1992 Knoxville Nats by 9 seconds. 

     Question that really has nothing much to do with this tread, I'm just curious: where did Kinsey start that race?

"Wiring the field" used to be an infrequent event. Now it's just another night.

Not long ago, I didn't think twice about driving 150-200 miles to watch my beloved sprint cars. But these heads-up starts are keeping me from thinking about it once. 

Probably the pole,but I’d have to check. 

Doesnt the Ascoc have a 4 car heat invert but prevent sandbagging by guaranteeing top qualifiers at spot in the dash. ?

Seems to work to me. What am I kissing that is a problem with the Ascoc system?

Doesnt the Ascoc have a 4 car heat invert but prevent sandbagging by guaranteeing top qualifiers at spot in the dash. ?

Seems to work to me. What am I kissing that is a problem with the Ascoc system?

Correct-----we remember the great races because we sit through a lot of snoozers to get there.  I watch time trials at the WoO races and Nationals because they ARE so crucial to the way the night/weekend is going to shake down.  However, I'm with you on the fact that they could replace them with something else and I'd be happy.  

I've posted this 5-10 times already for what I think would be the best format at any 410 show:  (except Nationals---I say leave that alone)

1.  Pill draw for 1st set of heat races---record passing points and finish points

2.  Complete invert of same heat races---record passing points and finish points

3.  Invert top 6, 8, or 10 for dash----record passing points and finish points

4.  Line up feature according to points or do a 4 or 6 car point invert.  

Nothing but racing all night. 2nd set of heats should get racier than 1st set of heats.  Why not?  If you're fast all night, you are going to end up starting top 6.  

And, I agree with your last sentence as well-----if the track is lock down fast, it's only fair the fastest car all night gets to start out front---as boring as that may be

I like that format but I too worry about the track being too used up by feature time.  For example if you have 30 cars there is 60 laps for time trials (I know I'm not wording this right, it's late lol).  Then with 3 heats at 10 laps and 10 cars a piece assuming there is no yellows or bad starts and everyone finishes there would be 100 laps per heat(10 cars times 10 laps) times 3.  So at a minimum there is 300 laps put on the track in heats.  So taking out time trials and adding another set of heats would add 240 laps to the track.

What I've always thought would be a cool format is very similar to yours but only has one heat.

1.  Scrap time trials and add a couple laps to each heat.

2.  Random draw for heat starts.  Also taking passing points and finish points into account.

3.  Run a dash with the top 12 point in points of the night completely inverted that is only 10 laps.  Also take into account passing points and finish points.

4.  Shortly before the feature have the top point guy draw a pill numbered between 0 and 6.  with the 0-6 representing how many rows will be inverted.  0 is obviously straight up, 1 just inverts the front row etc.

Nothing but racing here either but would keep the laps the same as a normal show prior to feature time.  I like the randomness of not really knowing where you would start.  However you would still want to be the top point guy.  If you are the top point guy you have a 4 in 7 chance of starting in the top 3 rows.  But if you are the 11th or 12th place guy you only have a 1 in 7 chance of improving your position.  Some might not like the randomness but I do.

I like that format but I too worry about the track being too used up by feature time.  For example if you have 30 cars there is 60 laps for time trials (I know I'm not wording this right, it's late lol).  Then with 3 heats at 10 laps and 10 cars a piece assuming there is no yellows or bad starts and everyone finishes there would be 100 laps per heat(10 cars times 10 laps) times 3.  So at a minimum there is 300 laps put on the track in heats.  So taking out time trials and adding another set of heats would add 240 laps to the track.

What I've always thought would be a cool format is very similar to yours but only has one heat.

1.  Scrap time trials and add a couple laps to each heat.

2.  Random draw for heat starts.  Also taking passing points and finish points into account.

3.  Run a dash with the top 12 point in points of the night completely inverted that is only 10 laps.  Also take into account passing points and finish points.

4.  Shortly before the feature have the top point guy draw a pill numbered between 0 and 6.  with the 0-6 representing how many rows will be inverted.  0 is obviously straight up, 1 just inverts the front row etc.

Nothing but racing here either but would keep the laps the same as a normal show prior to feature time.  I like the randomness of not really knowing where you would start.  However you would still want to be the top point guy.  If you are the top point guy you have a 4 in 7 chance of starting in the top 3 rows.  But if you are the 11th or 12th place guy you only have a 1 in 7 chance of improving your position.  Some might not like the randomness but I do.

Doesnt the Ascoc have a 4 car heat invert but prevent sandbagging by guaranteeing top qualifiers at spot in the dash. ?

Seems to work to me. What am I kissing that is a problem with the Ascoc system?

It almost scares me but I agree with Dietrich regarding the Allstar format. Per an interview he recently gave to Sprint Car Unlimited, he describes the Allstar format as rewarding mediocrity and I have to agree. Take for instance the recent show at the Grove. Heat 1 had Zearfoss and Dewease on the front row and they timed in 19 and 17 out of 35 who took time. Heat 3 had Moody and Reutzel on the front row timing it at 24 and 18.   Deitrich is in Heat 1 goes 5th quick overall and has to start 4th. He finishes 3rd but then doesn't make the dash. Rahmer timed in 12th quick but got in a stiffer heat, Heat 4, and thus started 5th in his heat. They both timed better than these four but have to work a lot harder to try and make the dash. They did exactly what they were asked to do, go fast in time, but end up penalized for it with this format. Of the four front row cars I mentioned, (Zearfoss, Dewease, Moody, Reutzel) these would be third row cars in Outlaw format which is about where the should be. Of those four all but Moody went on to the dash.  The three who made it were, dare I say it, rewarded for mediocrity. They were mid pack cars in time but got lucky with the format. Yes the top two in overall time are rewarded with just having to qualify to get into the dash but after that it's a total crap shoot. Way too much luck involved for my taste and not enough reward/punishment for actual performance. If you are outside the top two, the format is like bracket racing for sprint cars. You can be fast just not too fast.       

I think a couple of things could be done to combat this:

1.  Reduce heat length by 2 laps.  The passing starts and ends in the first 2 laps anyways. 

2.  If they're running 3 support classes, run 2.  If they're running 2, run 1.  Most would rather watch additional sprint car racing----even if it's just heats

3.  If cutting a support class, lengthen the feature by 5 or 10 laps---if the track goes away at the end of the feature, so be it.  

4.  Keep the schedule flexible.  If the track looks to be going away, run sprint car feature 1st and support class(es) last---have the entire pits on notice that the schedule could change.  

5.  And the obvious----invest in some addtional time/resources/manpower in track prep.  

Doesnt the Ascoc have a 4 car heat invert but prevent sandbagging by guaranteeing top qualifiers at spot in the dash. ?

Seems to work to me. What am I kissing that is a problem with the Ascoc system?

Bull dung.  I have seen lead cars passes on last 2 laps.  You do not see it much with WOO cause they start fastest up front in heats, what a joke.  You see passing on last 2 laps of local races than WOO because of a invert.

What do you mean by "blind qualifying or blind invert"?