Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

and a california named Abreau wins the Gold Cup...spank, spank!!

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

"Track prep was great"? LOL If that was great I'd hate to see what a rough track looks like out there. The Cali boy did do very well, no doubt about that. Congrats to Rico!

A

That makes sense to me....

I wonder if Outlaws do better at Perris, bigger track, & smoother I think?

After last night's results at Calistoga, it appears the Outlaws are back in domination mode by reversing the whippings of the previous races by the CA drivers during this west coast swing. Granted Calistoga is a larger track, but imo the smoothness of the track had more to do with the result than the speed. There was no bouncing and galluping in every corner to contend with. Calistoga seems to be a nice wide smooth track with more than one groove to run. Last nights race had a lot of competitive action in the A Main. Looked like plenty of racing action throughout the field. In fact, the CA drivers were the ones who apperaed to have more problems with the flat out speeds. It was a another entertaining race to watch imo. Now we'll wait and see what tonight brings.

First of all the A main events at Silver Dollar Speedway and Placerville on Weds. night were anything BUT one lane affairs. If you dont have dirtvision I'll give you a pass on not knowing those simple facts. If you did in fact watch them however and still came to the conclusion that they were single lane affairs, you're suffering from a clear case of cognitive dissonance. The lack of dirtvision makes a hell of a lot more sense however so lets go with that. 

Secondly, the fact that the locals did so well at both those tracks isn't about rough tracks or some unique home track advantage. It's about the obvious fact that horsepower and car setup isn't as important at those places, period. Talent shines on equalizing venues rather than top level crew cheif setups and power. River Cities Speedway is another venue that exemplifies that truth perfectly. This is why more top level talent is groomed out of bullrings than big momentum tracks. History proves this, just look at who rises to the top tier and what they started racing on. Car control and passing thats what matters if you're going to be the best. You learn how to do that on small tracks.

Lastly Calistoga was never going to be a locals dominated affair. The locals in Cali hit that joint 3 maybe 4 times at the MOST each year. The preponderance of their racing is on small bullrings mostly at fairgrounds all over the state. They race on 1 half mile very, very infrequently. That is a huge ol paperclip thats eats the motors of small budget teams and always has. I've been around sprint car racing long enough to know that well before the cars even enter the place. Also Stoga is a mostly one lane place, another irrefutable fact.

Bottom line is this, when things are equalized locals everywhere stand a really good chance of putting a whooping on the travelers. There is zero debate about that. 

Cheers!

I couldnt get past the 2Nd paragraph where you said setups weren’t important on small tracks. 

He never said setups on a smaller track weren't important, just that they were not as important as the bigger, half mile tracks.

I don't think thats a crazy statement at all. 

I guess that answers my previous question: "I wonder if Outlaws do better at Perris, bigger track, & smoother I think?"

Well its not Perris, but same idea. i didn't know Calistoga was a 1/2 mile until I watched on PPV

What I'm curious about is why there were 41 cars at Chico but only 24 at Calistoga? Probably some guys didn't wanna run the half mile?

First of all...Where the fuck did I say the other tracks were one lane? And yes I watched them all FYI.  Many think the larger smoother tracks are far too often one groove. I was relating that Calistoga was not. Don't read or assume something is in a post that isn't there, because it makes you look like fool. BTW.....do you know what cognitive dissonance even is? I wasn't contradicting myself at all.

Secondly..... I earlier posted that even with the roughness the CA short tracks offer, the CA locals do seem to excell on the road when running the smoother short tracks and the larger smooth tracks. I have not only seen that on DV, but also live, like at Jackson earlier this year where Eliason won. So I stated that the rough tracks appear to be good training grounds. And if for a second you think setup doesn't matter on a rough short track you are mistaken. I will give you that a horsepower advantage can be somewhat equalized, but usually not near enough. The rouhgness of those tracks is more than just an equalizer for the locals. That does take away from the driving style of the travellers. Everybody knows that Schatz nearly always struggles on the CA short tracks.  And I will disagree with you that most of the great talent has come from the bullrings. I think it all equals pretty much out.

Lastly....why did you think that Calistoga was not going to be dominated by the locals? You seem to think because they only run there 3-4 times a year as the reason. Well how many times a year do they run Knoxville, and yet CA put what 6 or 7 drivers in the Nationals A Main?  The Outlaws are by far and away better when they are on a race track large or small when they can search around on the track. When they can find a better way to use the setup they have under them to run a changing track. There isn't much searching done on a rough ass short track. It's more like holding on and getting to the checkers. 

And you should never state something has a zero debate status as a bottom line. Things between the locals and the Outlaws are never equalized. Who are you kidding? Simply because the CA locals from time to time or the Posse from time to time do really well against the Outlaws at home has more to do with an era of the Outlaws drivers than anything else. What about those years when Kinser and company kicked asses in CA and in PA and every where else? No doubt the CA short tracks with there unique track prep and the paperclip WG in PA are the equalizers for now. Those places are enjoyng a time period that allows for that. But that hasn't been the case over the long haul against the travellers. And that my friend does have zero debate. :)

Give me a cowboy up rough track where they have to search and makes for high drama......then a follow the leader bullshit half mile affair. Just saying. Oh by the way go listen to Jackslash Podcast and listen to what Sean Buckley had to say about the bullrings in Cali. He worked for the Outlaws and other sanctions, so I think he has a idea. Now back to drinking and enjoying my weekend of debauchery! 

Where's my beer or scotch on the rocks? God-damn it! 40 
plus years of dirt track racing in these old veins might 
get me condemned by the EPA.

Cowboy up and rough is one thing, but when the track is also narrow is another. Not much searching on a rough and narrow track. Two things that are pretty common with the CA short tracks.

Do you even go to races in CA? Most of our tracks are 1/4 racey bull rings with lots of passing and not narrow! Both Outlaws events at Chico and Placerville were on well prepared tracks with lots of passing. Calistoga did take rubber on Saturday night, but that happens sometimes. Just admit that our CA boys whooped up on the Outlaws with the exception of Friday night at Calistoga. Rico, Brad Sweet, Cory Eliason and many of the top 10 at Chico and Placerville were all some of our best drivers. There is no doubt that CA is producing some of the best drivers in the country and has been for a while now. 

Looking forward to the new Golden State King of the 
West series schedule! 

Winged sprintcars = the fastest and most exciting 
racecars on dirt! 

Number one, don't sound like some areas where some fans disregard the fact that once some past local drivers have moved on and are no longer local. Sweet is Outlaw and Rico races everywhere.  And when fans at a race track commonly count the number of wrecks that occur on any given night or during two and three day shows, then in my opinion something is wrong with the track prep. I have never seen the amount of mud buildup at a race track like what the short tracks in CA have. What's the purpose of that? As much as three and four feet deep in the corners. And don't be picky about where you choose to count giving the Outlaws a whooping, especially when your boys got a whooping right back. And maybe it's you who needs to visit other states with bull rings where the wrecks aren't expected to be counted.

BTW....did you see the stats I posted from the CA Outlaw swing?

In case you missed them.

After five events during the California swing, the Outlaws have three wins and the Locals/Invaders have two wins. When it comes to top ten finishes the Outlaws have twenty-six and the Locals/Invaders have twenty four. Split hairs anyway you want, but I'm considering Saldana as Outlaw even though the arguement could be made he's an invader. Either way, the California swing has been interesting in that the wins have been pretty well split evenly among the tracks, but the top tens are a different story.  The Outlaws have one win each at Silver Dollar, Placerville and Calistoga. The Locals/Invaders have one win each at Silver Dollar and Calistoga. The top tens though are quite different. The Outlaws have six at SiverDollar, the Locals/Invaders have fourteen. Both have five top tens at Placerville. When it comes to Calistoga, the Outlaws have fifteen and the Locals/Invaders have five. That's quite a contrast between Silver Dollar and Calistoga. It could be argued by some that the car counts were down at Calistoga which gave the Outlaws an advantage, the experts will have to say what key drivers may have been missing, but the facts are the facts regardless. 

It'll be interesting to see how things break down during the upcoming PA swing.

I did see your post. I  would love to be able to go to other tracks across the country someday! Just need more and time ;)I have been to almost every dirt track in CA, Las Vegas, Fernley, and Lernerville. I grew up watching guys like Kyle Larson, Rico, Brad Sweet, start racing 360s as young teenagers so I still consider them as our local CA guys even though they have gone on to great things racing all over the country. Just last year Cory Eliason was racing locally with the KWS and SCC and now he is racing across the country with the 83. 

Now sure about the mud buildup being 3-4 ft deep, but I do like when our tracks widen out and have multiple lanes. My favorite CA tracks are Tulare, Placerville, and Petaluma speedway. 

Looking forward to the new Golden State King of the 
West series schedule! 

Winged sprintcars = the fastest and most exciting 
racecars on dirt! 

I've noticed at different times at different tracks out there that when a car gets hung up in the corners at the fences that the safety crew seems to be climbing a small mountain of mud to retrieve the cars. And the mud is not just positioned up close to the walls, but falling away from them six feet or so.. Just curious as to why so much?

Damn, ole Blazer sure has been argumentative lately....

I think most of us are happy that Cali guys kicked ass, & congratulate them

As  for tracks, I've only been to 2 in California, Perris & Tulare (Trophy Cup & USAC non wingers)

Perris seemed like a pretty standard 1/2, but I was disappointed by all the wrecks at Tulare, after being really excited by full inversion idea (just like the good ole days...)

"cowboy up & rough" makes it sound exciting, but sitting around for endless yellows is boring as hell

That said, didn't seem like an excessive number of wrecks at the bullrings where the locals dominated... I enjoyed it, even on PPV (live is SO MUCH better!!!).... so I hope it doesn't "R&^%" in Pennsyltucky for National Open & other Outlaw races... planning on smelling some of that methanol & getting dirty!!! :)

Not grouchy at all. I too congratulated the Cali guys on their successes. But, and no argument here, they did only kick ass half the time, the other half they got their asses kicked. :) And stay tuned for more crashes at Tulare in the upcoming Trophy Cup. Thirty plus crashes is not uncommon.

OK, you're not grouchy! ;)

one thing i know about Tulare is the wall obviously creates different racing than most of our bullring tracks; chico, ocean, kings have no wall on 1 end or the other, allowing some guys to take it in hard & slide off with no price to pay, other than tag the back. i personally feel the wall promotes cleaner, less bonzai type racing. i know you guys say its rough, choppy, wreck happy and so on, but not always fellas. first started coming to Thunderbowl in 02, been to over 150 races since, some of the best races ever have taken place there, numerous drivers call it their favorite track. so blazer, revjimk i know we go round & round about this issue, and we keep it clean & in good fun, but i'm stubborn about my fav. track. maybe someday you'll make it here, or make it again and see what all the talk is about. BTW, a buddy & I came to the midwest twice in 04 for the Spring Classic @ Knoxville April 30, May 1st, & the Red River Shootout in Fargo, June or July, both outlaw shows. got rained out friday night Knoxville, they shoved 2 shows into sat nite, walked away at 2:50 am full of methanol & dirt, totally different racing than what we were accustomed to, had a blast. Fargo was a 3 day show, sat nite main ending after 19 laps with jawbreaker sized hail. racing was loud and fast, 1st time experiencing no mufflers. came away from both events satisfied, yet could'nt wait to see some 1/4 mile action back home. I guess it's all a preference thing. have a good one guys