Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

      BillV99 has been posting some stats about wins from various tracks. I'm something of a number geek so I like stuff like that. Good job Bill! It was enlightening to see how many winners came from the front 3 rows. Answer- most of 'em.

      I know there's probaly no way to check statistics on this, but I wonder which drivers are the best at winning from the back? True, it seems like that happens less and less anymore, due to equality of equipment and due to changes in line-up procedures.

     Who are some of the drivers in your area that are remebered for winning a lot from the back? I can recall a lot of races in the past at Husets Speedway where Terry McCarl won from deep in the field. John Stevenson, Danny Lasoski and to a lesser extent, Mark Dobmeir have done a fair amout of winning from the back there.

I was never good enough in math to reach geek status..  But, you all might just be able to make a contribution to bored race fans. (a dangerous lott)....  Suppose as an added attraction for a multi-day event, a smart promoter with a track like say an Eldora would turn you guys lose on an inverted start race....  and lets say that the purse was paid out through a split of inversion passing money combined with finishing order money.. example: 10K purse, 5k to first place and 5k to most passing points and maybe another 5k to overall winner since its Eldora and all.....  If you find a sweet spot where a legit team can look at a say, 10th or 14th starting position and make it worth their while financially, you might be on to something...... heck that might work even better in local racing... Then Keith Kauffman could get back in the game..... The point being, let the teams have a little skin in the game (as in purse rewards) and it just might improve the product when used properly...

I can think of 2 races kind of like that: old Front Row Challenge format, & Tulare Trophy Cup

Stats on overall wins from the back would be interesting

For individual races, two stand out to me: Obviously, Schatz winning Knoxville from B-Main & maybe 21st or 24th (I was there), and Fast Freddy Rahmer Sr. beating Outlaws at The Grove from dead last, maybe 2009? I have the video of that, but like most videos, camera focuses on leaders, & you can't see Freddy fighting thru the pack until he's getting close to the front...

Freddie coming thru that field was unbelievable. 

Here are some 410 wing races/drivers from 2019 for races won outside the top 3 rows.  Note, this would not be a complete list, as I only have starting line-ups for 362 (90%) races of the total 404 in 2019.

2019 races won from 7th or worst (Total 41 - 11% of 362)...

Name, Starting Position, Date, Track, Race, Series, Link

Carson Macedo    7    03/15/19    Silver Dollar,CA    Mini Gold Cup    WoO    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=29996
Dylan Cisney    8    03/23/19    Port Royal,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30001
David Gravel    7    03/29/19    Keller,CA        WoO    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30005
Freddie Rahmer    9    04/06/19    Lincoln,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30021
Jeff Swindell    8    04/12/19    Tri-City,IL    Deuces Wild    MOWA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30036
Alan Krimes    7    04/13/19    Lincoln,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30040
Lance DeWease    8    04/13/19    Port Royal,PA    Keith Kauffman Classic    AS    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30038
Bill Balog    9    04/20/19    Beaver Dam,WI    Jim Wipperfurth Memorial    IRA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30048
Danny Dietrich    8    04/20/19    Port Royal,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30051
Buddy Kofoid    10    05/18/19    Fremont,OH        AFCS    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30092
Brian Montieth    8    05/25/19    Lincoln,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30118
Logan Schuchart    14    05/25/19    Charlotte,NC    Patriot Nationals    WoO    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30112
Aaron Reutzel    11    05/26/19    Fremont,OH        AS    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30121
Mark Dobmeier    8    05/31/19    River Cities,ND        NOSA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30140
Anthony Macri    7    06/01/19    Lincoln,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30146
DJ Foos    8    06/07/19    Attica,OH        AFCS    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30159
Danny Dietrich    8    06/09/19    Weedsport,NY        AS    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30184
Danny Dietrich    8    06/15/19    Lincoln,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30199
Lucas Wolfe    9    06/15/19    Port Royal,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30200
Chad Blonde    7    06/22/19    Butler,MI    WWIII    SOD    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30227
Justin Sanders    7    06/29/19    Placerville,CA        KoW    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30249
Aaron Reutzel    9    06/29/19    Route 66,IL    Bill Waite, Jr. Memorial Classic    AS    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30248
Lance DeWease    8    07/03/19    Port Royal,PA    PA Speedweek        SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30260
Aaron Reutzel    7    07/05/19    Lernerville,PA        AS    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30269
Sheldon Haudenschild    8    07/06/19    Cedar Lake,WI        WoO    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30273
Dylan Cisney    8    07/13/19    Port Royal,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30299
Austin Pierce    7    07/19/19    River Cities,ND        NOSA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30329
Jared Esh    9    07/20/19    Port Royal,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30335
Dave Blaney    7    07/27/19    Sharon,OH            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30355
Bill Balog    8    07/27/19    ABC,WI        IRA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30365
Austin Pierce    15    08/09/19    River Cities,ND        NOSA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30409
Cap Henry    8    08/10/19    Fremont,OH            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30424
Danny Dietrich    7    08/17/19    Lincoln,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30440
Bob Martin    11    08/23/19    River Cities,ND        NOSA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30463
Sye Lynch    7    08/23/19    Lernerville,PA            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30458
Austin Pierce    8    09/06/19    River Cities,ND    John Seitz Memorial    NOSA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30525
Bill Balog    8    09/07/19    Cedar Lake,WI    Jerry Richert Memorial    IRA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30532
Bill Balog    9    09/14/19    Beaver Dam,WI    Scott Semmelmann Memorial    IRA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30549
Tim Shaffer    9    09/20/19    Fremont,OH    Jim & Joanne Ford Classic Night 1    FAST    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30563
Christopher Bell    13    09/21/19    Fremont,OH    Jim & Joanne Ford Classic    FAST    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30572
Jeremy Schultz    16    09/28/19    Plymouth,WI    WI Sprint Car Championships    IRA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30588

Driver, Number of races won starting 7th or worst (Total 41 - 11% of 362, 29 drivers)...

• Bill Balog    4
• Danny Dietrich    4
• Aaron Reutzel    3
• Austin Pierce    3
• Dylan Cisney    2
• Lance DeWease    2
• Alan Krimes 1
• Anthony Macri    1
• Bob Martin    1
• Brian Montieth    1
• Buddy Kofoid    1
• Cap Henry    1
• Carson Macedo    1
• Chad Blonde    1
• Christopher Bell    1
• Dave Blaney    1
• David Gravel    1
• DJ Foos    1
• Freddie Rahmer    1
• Jared Esh    1
• Jeff Swindell    1
• Jeremy Schultz    1
• Justin Sanders    1
• Logan Schuchart    1
• Lucas Wolfe    1
• Mark Dobmeier    1
• Sheldon Haudenschild    1
• Sye Lynch    1
• Tim Shaffer    1

SprintCarRatings.com

Here are some 410 wingless races/drivers from 2019 for races won outside the top 3 rows.  Note, this would not be a complete list, as I only have starting line-ups for 175 (76%) races of the total 229 in 2019. 

2019 races won from 7th or worst (Total 23 - 13% of 175)...

Name, Starting Position, Date, Track, Race, Series, Link

CJ Leary    8    03/02/19    Central Arizona,AZ    Cotton Classic    USACSW    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=29990
Josh Hodges    11    03/08/19    Canyon,AZ    Spring Showcase    USAC/CRA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=29991
Thomas Meseraull    8    04/13/19    Lincoln Park,IN            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30044
Robert Ballou    7    04/13/19    Lawrenceburg,IN            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30045
Brody Roa    7    04/27/19    Canyon,AZ    State 48 Classic    USACSW    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30059
Troy Rutherford    11    05/04/19    Ventura,CA        USAC/CRA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30066
Tyler Courtney    7    05/10/19    Eldora,OH        USAC    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30073
Kyle Cummins    7    05/31/19    Paragon,IN        MSCS    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30137
Thomas Meseraull    9    06/08/19    Lawrenceburg,IN           SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30174
Shon Deskins    9    06/22/19    281,TX        ESCS    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30226
Jadon Rogers    7    06/28/19    Paragon,IN            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30235
Anthony Nicholson    11    06/29/19    Spoon River,IL        WAR    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30244
Shane Cottle    18    07/18/19    Gas City,IN    Indiana Sprint Week    USAC    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30324
Matt Westfall    12    08/02/19    Limaland,OH            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30383
Thomas Meseraull    7    08/03/19    Lawrenceburg,IN            SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30398
Brady Bacon    23    08/06/19    Southern Iowa,IA    Ultimate Challenge    WAR    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30401
Matt Westfall    14    08/24/19    Kokomo,IN        BOSS    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30477
Shane Cockrum    10    08/31/19    Lincoln Park,IN    King of Nonwing Sprints        SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30498
Austin Williams    8    08/31/19    Calistoga,CA    CA Sprint Week Louie Vermeil Classic    USAC/CRA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30501
Chase Johnson    7    09/02/19    Petaluma,CA    CA Sprint Week    USAC/CRA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30516
Brady Bacon    8    09/20/19    Lucas Oil,MO    Jesse Hockett/Daniel McMillin Memorial Prelim    WAR    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30564
Austin Williams    9    09/21/19    Perris,CA    Glenn Howard Classic    USAC/CRA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30574
RJ Johnson (AZ)    8    09/28/19    Arizona,AZ    Hall of Fame Classic    USAC/CRA    SprintCarRatings.com/RaceResults.aspx?RaceID=30591
 

Driver, Number of races won starting 7th or worst (Total 23 races - 13% of 175, 18 drivers)...

• Thomas Meseraull    3
• Brady Bacon 2
• Austin Williams    2
• Matt Westfall    2
• Anthony Nicholson    1
• Brody Roa    1
• Chase Johnson    1
• CJ Leary    1
• Jadon Rogers    1
• Josh Hodges    1
• Kyle Cummins    1
• RJ Johnson (AZ)    1
• Robert Ballou    1
• Shane Cockrum    1
• Shane Cottle    1
• Shon Deskins    1
• Troy Rutherford    1
• Tyler Courtney    1

I know this is older.............this is where Rico flipped on the first lap....repaired the car..started LAST

and well..........WON THE RACE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JhnWAMoF3o

Brady Bacon is a gasser, I've seen him come from 3 or more rows back to win a bunch of races in many divisions. He is always moving forward.

You're amazing...... & must be good with spreadsheets?

Thanks, great stuff!

Amazing! Just goes to show, never give up

MUST be old... no mullet! ;)

OK, that was cool to watch. Thanks for the link.

Not exactly spreadsheets, as I have all my data in a normalized database, so querying data I need is very easy.

Johnny Herrera won a feature at Knoxville in 95' I think driving for Forbrook. I think it was the Saturday before the Nationals so the field was pretty stout. 

Didnt Schatz come thru the B one year at the Nationals and win the A?  Dont think he started dead last in the A but he was pretty far back there

To quote Tim Allen: Ten years ago nobody would even know what that means. Today, I'm the only one that doesn't know what that means".

      Thanks for the info you provide. It's entertaining and we need entertainment right now.

To bore you even more...

Normalization is the process of organizing data in a database. This includes creating tables and establishing relationships between those tables according to rules designed both to protect the data and to make the database more flexible by eliminating redundancy and inconsistent dependency.

I have just started recently of tracking feature starting line-ups, I've mainly only gone back in 2019 and gathered as much of it as I can.  I have inserted starting lines all the way back to 2015 for some series (Outlaws, All-Stars, IRA) that has been easy to track that data.

But here are drivers since 2015 that have won from outside the top 3 rows.  Of the 2227 410 wing races since 2015, I only have starting line-ups for 959 races(43%).  110 (11%) races have been won outside of the top 3, by 54 drivers...

• 14 Donny Schatz
• 13 Bill Balog
• 5 Danny Dietrich
• 4 Aaron Reutzel
• 4 Dale Blaney
• 4 Lance DeWease
• 4 Tim Shaffer
• 3 Austin Pierce
• 3 David Gravel
• 3 Scotty Thiel
• 3 Sheldon Haudenschild
• 2 Alan Krimes
• 2 Blake Nimee
• 2 Carson Macedo
• 2 Christopher Bell
• 2 Dylan Cisney
• 2 Kyle Larson
• 2 Logan Schuchart
• 1 Anthony Macri
• 1 Bob Martin
• 1 Brad Sweet
• 1 Brent Marks
• 1 Brian Montieth
• 1 Brooke Tatnell
• 1 Buddy Kofoid
• 1 Cap Henry
• 1 Chad Blonde
• 1 Chad Kemenah
• 1 Cody Darrah
• 1 Dave Blaney
• 1 Davey Heskin
• 1 DJ Foos
• 1 Dusty Zomer
• 1 Freddie Rahmer
• 1 Greg Wilson
• 1 Jared Esh
• 1 Jason Johnson
• 1 Jeff Swindell
• 1 Jeremy Schultz
• 1 Justin Sanders
• 1 Kerry Madsen
• 1 Kraig Kinser
• 1 Lucas Wolfe
• 1 Mark Dobmeier
• 1 Parker Price-Miller
• 1 Randy Hannagan
• 1 Roger Crockett
• 1 Scott Neitzel
• 1 Scott Uttech
• 1 Shane Stewart
• 1 Spencer Bayston
• 1 Stewart Friesen
• 1 Sye Lynch
• 1 Todd King

SprintCarRatings.com

Dang that Schatz always trying to hog all the attention.:)

I don't even know what a "normalized database" is!